printing 5/16-18 threads

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printing 5/16-18 threads

jon_bondy
I printed a 5/16" shaft in PLA and threaded it at 18 TPI with a die,
successfully.  I then printed a similar shaft using NinjaTech's Cheetah,
and my attempts to put threads on that shaft have been laughable.  It is
a tough and flexible material, which is why I like it, but threading it
is unlikely.

Has anyone had any success printing threads directly at resolutions like
this on a printer with an 0.4 mm nozzle?

Thanks!

Jon


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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

alexgibson
Hi Jon,

I'm not at all saying this would work - but if you already have the shaft printed in TPI/cheetah, would you be up for an experiment?

I would be interested to see if putting both the shaft and the die in the freezer overnight and repeating the attempt rapidly on removal might yield a better, if not 'good' result?

Cheers,

Alex Gibson

admg consulting

edumaker limited

• Project management
• Operations & Process improvement
• 3D Printing

-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of jon
Sent: 15 May 2020 14:08
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: [OpenSCAD] printing 5/16-18 threads

I printed a 5/16" shaft in PLA and threaded it at 18 TPI with a die,
successfully.  I then printed a similar shaft using NinjaTech's Cheetah,
and my attempts to put threads on that shaft have been laughable.  It is
a tough and flexible material, which is why I like it, but threading it
is unlikely.

Has anyone had any success printing threads directly at resolutions like
this on a printer with an 0.4 mm nozzle?

Thanks!

Jon


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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

nophead
I have printed threaded containers without problems other than the first item I printed with my own thread library came out with a left hand thread, doh! East to fix.

I have also printed this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:23030, which has quite small threads, without problems.

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 14:16, Alex Gibson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jon,

I'm not at all saying this would work - but if you already have the shaft printed in TPI/cheetah, would you be up for an experiment?

I would be interested to see if putting both the shaft and the die in the freezer overnight and repeating the attempt rapidly on removal might yield a better, if not 'good' result?

Cheers,

Alex Gibson

admg consulting

edumaker limited

• Project management
• Operations & Process improvement
• 3D Printing

-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of jon
Sent: 15 May 2020 14:08
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: [OpenSCAD] printing 5/16-18 threads

I printed a 5/16" shaft in PLA and threaded it at 18 TPI with a die,
successfully.  I then printed a similar shaft using NinjaTech's Cheetah,
and my attempts to put threads on that shaft have been laughable.  It is
a tough and flexible material, which is why I like it, but threading it
is unlikely.

Has anyone had any success printing threads directly at resolutions like
this on a printer with an 0.4 mm nozzle?

Thanks!

Jon


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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

jon_bondy

I froze a flexible part and managed to tap it, but attempts to use a die on a rod have failed, even when frozen.

nop head: do you believe that print orientation is important when printing threads?  That is, better with the rod horizontal or vertical?  The vertical attempt failed, even on my Prusa MK3s

Jon

On 5/15/2020 12:31 PM, nop head wrote:
I have printed threaded containers without problems other than the first item I printed with my own thread library came out with a left hand thread, doh! East to fix.

I have also printed this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:23030, which has quite small threads, without problems.

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 14:16, Alex Gibson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jon,

I would be interested to see if putting both the shaft and the die in the freezer overnight and repeating the attempt rapidly on removal might yield a better, if not 'good' result?

Cheers,

Alex Gibson


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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

adrianv
I printed 1/4-20 threading on a Prusa MK3 in PLA without any problems.  They
worked great with each other and with matching metal hardware.   Printed
them with bolts pointing up into the air and nuts in the same direction,
lying flat.  

How did your print attempt fail?   If you try to print threads horizontally
you're going to have a bunch of support problems.  It might work with
interrupted threads, I guess.  


jon_bondy wrote
> I froze a flexible part and managed to tap it, but attempts to use a die
> on a rod have failed, even when frozen.
>
> nop head: do you believe that print orientation is important when
> printing threads?  That is, better with the rod horizontal or vertical? 
> The vertical attempt failed, even on my Prusa MK3s





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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

cacb
In reply to this post by jon_bondy
On 2020-05-15 15:08, jon wrote:
> I printed a 5/16" shaft in PLA and threaded it at 18 TPI with a die,
> successfully.  I then printed a similar shaft using NinjaTech's
> Cheetah, and my attempts to put threads on that shaft have been
> laughable.  It is a tough and flexible material, which is why I like
> it, but threading it is unlikely.
>
> Has anyone had any success printing threads directly at resolutions
> like this on a printer with an 0.4 mm nozzle?

I have no idea what 5/16" means, but I have once designed and printed
(PLA) a M16 bolt and matching nut as a test for printing threads. It was
printed with a 0.3 mm nozzle.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1445033

Carsten Arnholm

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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

adrianv
5/16" in the diameter of the bolt in inches and the 18 is the threads per
inch.  So roughly speaking it's about an M8-1.4 bolt.  


cacb wrote
> I have no idea what 5/16" means, but I have once designed and printed
> (PLA) a M16 bolt and matching nut as a test for printing threads. It was
> printed with a 0.3 mm nozzle.





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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

jon_bondy
In reply to this post by adrianv
The first time I tried to print the rod vertically, using PLA and
without threads, it just snapped off.  This time, with threads, and with
flexible filament, it printed to completion (although the top of the rod
was wobbling all over the place towards the end of the print).  The
threads are recognizable, but there are enough small anomalies that it
is very difficult to screw into a nut.  I tried to clean it up with a
die, but there was too much resistance.

On 5/15/2020 4:18 PM, adrianv wrote:

> I printed 1/4-20 threading on a Prusa MK3 in PLA without any problems.  They
> worked great with each other and with matching metal hardware.   Printed
> them with bolts pointing up into the air and nuts in the same direction,
> lying flat.
>
> How did your print attempt fail?   If you try to print threads horizontally
> you're going to have a bunch of support problems.  It might work with
> interrupted threads, I guess.
>
>
> jon_bondy wrote
>> I froze a flexible part and managed to tap it, but attempts to use a die
>> on a rod have failed, even when frozen.
>>
>> nop head: do you believe that print orientation is important when
>> printing threads?  That is, better with the rod horizontal or vertical?
>> The vertical attempt failed, even on my Prusa MK3s

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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

adrianv
My bolts are short, 20 mm including the head.  But the threads are clean, no
need to do anything to get it to engage with other threaded parts other than
getting the tolerance right.  Seems like if you need a really tall rod you
might have to support it from the side with some support structure, maybe?
I don't know.  If you can't print a perfect 20mm long bolt then you need to
figure out what's wrong with your printer or filament.   (I use Prusament
for my prints.  Don't know how much difference that makes, but I have heard
that people experience more failures and problems with cheaper filament, and
I don't feel like messing around with that.)  

There is the problem that a long tall rod will tend to be weak.  I can't
snap my 20mm bolts by hand, but I wouldn't expect them to be particularly
strong, so if strength is critical, you need to do something different.  


jon_bondy wrote

> The first time I tried to print the rod vertically, using PLA and
> without threads, it just snapped off.  This time, with threads, and with
> flexible filament, it printed to completion (although the top of the rod
> was wobbling all over the place towards the end of the print).  The
> threads are recognizable, but there are enough small anomalies that it
> is very difficult to screw into a nut.  I tried to clean it up with a
> die, but there was too much resistance.
>
> On 5/15/2020 4:18 PM, adrianv wrote:
>> I printed 1/4-20 threading on a Prusa MK3 in PLA without any problems.
>> They
>> worked great with each other and with matching metal hardware.   Printed
>> them with bolts pointing up into the air and nuts in the same direction,
>> lying flat.
>>
>> How did your print attempt fail?   If you try to print threads
>> horizontally
>> you're going to have a bunch of support problems.  It might work with
>> interrupted threads, I guess.
>>
>>
>> jon_bondy wrote
>>> I froze a flexible part and managed to tap it, but attempts to use a die
>>> on a rod have failed, even when frozen.
>>>
>>> nop head: do you believe that print orientation is important when
>>> printing threads?  That is, better with the rod horizontal or vertical?
>>> The vertical attempt failed, even on my Prusa MK3s
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list

> Discuss@.openscad

> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org





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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

nophead
Why do you want a flexible bolt?

I often have problems with flexible prints wobbling. I think it needs a dual filament machine so it can print a solid core that could be dissolved out if the result needs to be flexible.

On Fri, 15 May 2020, 22:29 adrianv, <[hidden email]> wrote:
My bolts are short, 20 mm including the head.  But the threads are clean, no
need to do anything to get it to engage with other threaded parts other than
getting the tolerance right.  Seems like if you need a really tall rod you
might have to support it from the side with some support structure, maybe?
I don't know.  If you can't print a perfect 20mm long bolt then you need to
figure out what's wrong with your printer or filament.   (I use Prusament
for my prints.  Don't know how much difference that makes, but I have heard
that people experience more failures and problems with cheaper filament, and
I don't feel like messing around with that.) 

There is the problem that a long tall rod will tend to be weak.  I can't
snap my 20mm bolts by hand, but I wouldn't expect them to be particularly
strong, so if strength is critical, you need to do something different. 


jon_bondy wrote
> The first time I tried to print the rod vertically, using PLA and
> without threads, it just snapped off.  This time, with threads, and with
> flexible filament, it printed to completion (although the top of the rod
> was wobbling all over the place towards the end of the print).  The
> threads are recognizable, but there are enough small anomalies that it
> is very difficult to screw into a nut.  I tried to clean it up with a
> die, but there was too much resistance.
>
> On 5/15/2020 4:18 PM, adrianv wrote:
>> I printed 1/4-20 threading on a Prusa MK3 in PLA without any problems.
>> They
>> worked great with each other and with matching metal hardware.   Printed
>> them with bolts pointing up into the air and nuts in the same direction,
>> lying flat.
>>
>> How did your print attempt fail?   If you try to print threads
>> horizontally
>> you're going to have a bunch of support problems.  It might work with
>> interrupted threads, I guess.
>>
>>
>> jon_bondy wrote
>>> I froze a flexible part and managed to tap it, but attempts to use a die
>>> on a rod have failed, even when frozen.
>>>
>>> nop head: do you believe that print orientation is important when
>>> printing threads?  That is, better with the rod horizontal or vertical?
>>> The vertical attempt failed, even on my Prusa MK3s
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list

> Discuss@.openscad

> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org





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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

jon_bondy
We need something really strong and durable, and the Cheetah fits the
bill.  Not as good as NinjaFlex but still great.  I printed a sheet of
NinjaFlex two layers thick, and I've yet to meet anyone who can tear it
or break it.  So, we're trying it on the bolt (which is not really just
a bolt: it is a bolt and a cleat all printed as one item)

On 5/15/2020 6:13 PM, nop head wrote:
> Why do you want a flexible bolt?
>
> I often have problems with flexible prints wobbling. I think it needs
> a dual filament machine so it can print a solid core that could be
> dissolved out if the result needs to be flexible.
>

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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

MostlyHarmless
In reply to this post by jon_bondy
The smallest I have printed so far were M4 fasteners. M4 with a standard
0.7mm pitch is approximately a size 8-36 in imperial.

I have done them before in PLA. The fasteners in the attached picture are M4
and M6 printed in generic PETG on a Prusa MK3 with a 0.4 hardened steel
nozzle. Slic3r-PE 2.2 with a 0.5mm layer height, 100% infill. They all work
fine right off the print bed and mingle well with actual steel parts.


Regards, Jan

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t2836/DSCF6031.jpg>



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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

nophead
Impressive but is "0.5mm layer height" a typo? Looks more like 0.05mm.

On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 02:17, MostlyHarmless <[hidden email]> wrote:
The smallest I have printed so far were M4 fasteners. M4 with a standard
0.7mm pitch is approximately a size 8-36 in imperial.

I have done them before in PLA. The fasteners in the attached picture are M4
and M6 printed in generic PETG on a Prusa MK3 with a 0.4 hardened steel
nozzle. Slic3r-PE 2.2 with a 0.5mm layer height, 100% infill. They all work
fine right off the print bed and mingle well with actual steel parts.


Regards, Jan

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t2836/DSCF6031.jpg>



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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

RobWLakes
Very impressive, I would suspect there is a really well set up system behind this.
Cheers, RobW

On 19 May 2020 7:10:04 pm AEST, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Impressive but is "0.5mm layer height" a typo? Looks more like 0.05mm.

On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 02:17, MostlyHarmless <[hidden email]> wrote:
The smallest I have printed so far were M4 fasteners. M4 with a standard
0.7mm pitch is approximately a size 8-36 in imperial.

I have done them before in PLA. The fasteners in the attached picture are M4
and M6 printed in generic PETG on a Prusa MK3 with a 0.4 hardened steel
nozzle. Slic3r-PE 2.2 with a 0.5mm layer height, 100% infill. They all work
fine right off the print bed and mingle well with actual steel parts.


Regards, Jan

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t2836/DSCF6031.jpg>



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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

MostlyHarmless
On 19 May 2020 7:10:04 pm AEST, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Impressive but is "0.5mm layer height" a typo? Looks more like 0.05mm.

Yes, 0.05mm of course. 

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:35 AM Rob Ward <[hidden email]> wrote:
Very impressive, I would suspect there is a really well set up system behind this.

The most important factors for this in my experience are proper belt tension, correct extrusion amount, slow
speed and a level, very solid surface. I measure filament with an electronic caliper every now and then and
adjust the thickness in the slicer. The printer is sitting on two 16x8x2 inch concrete pavers on a level drawer.
All that together makes for precise walls with little oscillations and no bumps.

As was said in this thread before, things get trickier as the screws get longer. I don't remember having printed
an M4 longer than 20mm so far. The original question talking about a 5/16'' diameter I think anything up to 
2'' length should work. 


Best Regards, Jan

 
Cheers, RobW

On 19 May 2020 7:10:04 pm AEST, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Impressive but is "0.5mm layer height" a typo? Looks more like 0.05mm.

On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 02:17, MostlyHarmless <[hidden email]> wrote:
The smallest I have printed so far were M4 fasteners. M4 with a standard
0.7mm pitch is approximately a size 8-36 in imperial.

I have done them before in PLA. The fasteners in the attached picture are M4
and M6 printed in generic PETG on a Prusa MK3 with a 0.4 hardened steel
nozzle. Slic3r-PE 2.2 with a 0.5mm layer height, 100% infill. They all work
fine right off the print bed and mingle well with actual steel parts.


Regards, Jan

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t2836/DSCF6031.jpg>



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Re: printing 5/16-18 threads

MostlyHarmless
Did a little more testing.

Credit where credit is due first:
I am using Dan Kirshner's theads.scad v2.5 (found here: https://dkprojects.net/openscad-threads/).

Printing even M4 in 0.1mm layer doesn't reduce functionality, but very much improves strength.

The attached pictures are an M6x40 bolt with a 30mm shank (usually that sort of bolt has a shank).


Best Regards, Jan




On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:05 AM Jan Wieck <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 19 May 2020 7:10:04 pm AEST, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Impressive but is "0.5mm layer height" a typo? Looks more like 0.05mm.

Yes, 0.05mm of course. 

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:35 AM Rob Ward <[hidden email]> wrote:
Very impressive, I would suspect there is a really well set up system behind this.

The most important factors for this in my experience are proper belt tension, correct extrusion amount, slow
speed and a level, very solid surface. I measure filament with an electronic caliper every now and then and
adjust the thickness in the slicer. The printer is sitting on two 16x8x2 inch concrete pavers on a level drawer.
All that together makes for precise walls with little oscillations and no bumps.

As was said in this thread before, things get trickier as the screws get longer. I don't remember having printed
an M4 longer than 20mm so far. The original question talking about a 5/16'' diameter I think anything up to 
2'' length should work. 


Best Regards, Jan

 
Cheers, RobW

On 19 May 2020 7:10:04 pm AEST, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Impressive but is "0.5mm layer height" a typo? Looks more like 0.05mm.

On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 02:17, MostlyHarmless <[hidden email]> wrote:
The smallest I have printed so far were M4 fasteners. M4 with a standard
0.7mm pitch is approximately a size 8-36 in imperial.

I have done them before in PLA. The fasteners in the attached picture are M4
and M6 printed in generic PETG on a Prusa MK3 with a 0.4 hardened steel
nozzle. Slic3r-PE 2.2 with a 0.5mm layer height, 100% infill. They all work
fine right off the print bed and mingle well with actual steel parts.


Regards, Jan

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t2836/DSCF6031.jpg>



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