building screw threads

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building screw threads

Matt Maier
Howdy,
I tried searching the archives but the only way I could find to view them was to browse by month...which got tedious.

First, I'm a little curious why OpenSCAD can't create a helix. It seems like the rotate function would be the most obvious way to do this but the manual says it can't. Just wondering if that's a limitation of the underlying structure.

Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile (threaded rod) without having to use something like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render. I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?

I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you drew the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be parametric. Maybe a script outside of OpenSCAD could produce the right coordinates for all the points?

Cheers
Matt
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Re: building screw threads

nophead
This is what I use to create helical springs. It comes from an openscad example.

I doesn't take too long to render and, because I have a render() around it, it only does it once per spring size and after that it can draw as many as I want very quickly.

On 28 September 2012 05:18, Matt Maier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Howdy,
I tried searching the archives but the only way I could find to view them was to browse by month...which got tedious.

First, I'm a little curious why OpenSCAD can't create a helix. It seems like the rotate function would be the most obvious way to do this but the manual says it can't. Just wondering if that's a limitation of the underlying structure.

Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile (threaded rod) without having to use something like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render. I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?

I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you drew the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be parametric. Maybe a script outside of OpenSCAD could produce the right coordinates for all the points?

Cheers
Matt

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Re: building screw threads

Christopher Olah
... I hate to self-promote, but it's worth mentioning that recently
added features for ImplicitCAD solve this. One can now do something
like this:

union(){
    cylinder(r=20, h=80);
    rotate_extrude(5*360, translate=[0,80])
         translate([20,0])
                square([14,5], center=true);
}

I can render this at a decent resolution in about 1s.

You can see a picture of a similar object produced with ImplicitCAD's
new raytracer:

https://twitter.com/ch402/status/250411855447744512/photo/1

All the best,

Chris



On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 9:10 AM, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is what I use to create helical springs. It comes from an openscad
> example.
>
> I doesn't take too long to render and, because I have a render() around it,
> it only does it once per spring size and after that it can draw as many as I
> want very quickly.
>
> On 28 September 2012 05:18, Matt Maier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Howdy,
>> I tried searching the archives but the only way I could find to view them
>> was to browse by month...which got tedious.
>>
>> First, I'm a little curious why OpenSCAD can't create a helix. It seems
>> like the rotate function would be the most obvious way to do this but the
>> manual says it can't. Just wondering if that's a limitation of the
>> underlying structure.
>>
>> Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile
>> (threaded rod) without having to use something like this
>> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render.
>> I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?
>>
>> I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you
>> drew the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be
>> parametric. Maybe a script outside of OpenSCAD could produce the right
>> coordinates for all the points?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Matt
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenSCAD mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
>> http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: building screw threads

Triffid Hunter
In reply to this post by Matt Maier
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Matt Maier <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile
> (threaded rod) without having to use something like this
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render.
> I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?
>
> I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you drew
> the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be
> parametric.

The comments of that thing link to
http://dkprojects.net/openscad-threads/ which sounds like what you
describe.. let us know!

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Re: building screw threads

Whosawhatsis
In reply to this post by Matt Maier

You can use linear extruded to make a helix or screw thread, but you have to pretty high-res curves to make it look right, and the way the facets are generated really only looks right when the period of the helix is less than the diameter. The faces which are parallelograms, will also end up convex with a positive twist, but concave with a negative twist, and getting the best helical shape probably requires using a difference or intersection with a positive-twist and mirrored negative-twist extrusion.  Of course, of would be ideal if

On Sep 27, 2012 9:18 PM, "Matt Maier" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Howdy,
I tried searching the archives but the only way I could find to view them was to browse by month...which got tedious.

First, I'm a little curious why OpenSCAD can't create a helix. It seems like the rotate function would be the most obvious way to do this but the manual says it can't. Just wondering if that's a limitation of the underlying structure.

Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile (threaded rod) without having to use something like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render. I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?

I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you drew the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be parametric. Maybe a script outside of OpenSCAD could produce the right coordinates for all the points?

Cheers
Matt

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Re: building screw threads

Christopher Olah
... Additionally, for linear_extrude, you'll need to do some
non-trivial work when the thread profile isn't something simple like a
square.

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Whosawhatsis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can use linear extruded to make a helix or screw thread, but you have to
> pretty high-res curves to make it look right, and the way the facets are
> generated really only looks right when the period of the helix is less than
> the diameter. The faces which are parallelograms, will also end up convex
> with a positive twist, but concave with a negative twist, and getting the
> best helical shape probably requires using a difference or intersection with
> a positive-twist and mirrored negative-twist extrusion.  Of course, of would
> be ideal if
>
> On Sep 27, 2012 9:18 PM, "Matt Maier" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Howdy,
>> I tried searching the archives but the only way I could find to view them
>> was to browse by month...which got tedious.
>>
>> First, I'm a little curious why OpenSCAD can't create a helix. It seems
>> like the rotate function would be the most obvious way to do this but the
>> manual says it can't. Just wondering if that's a limitation of the
>> underlying structure.
>>
>> Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile
>> (threaded rod) without having to use something like this
>> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render.
>> I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?
>>
>> I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you
>> drew the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be
>> parametric. Maybe a script outside of OpenSCAD could produce the right
>> coordinates for all the points?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Matt
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenSCAD mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
>> http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
> http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566

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Re: building screw threads

Kenneth R Sloan
In reply to this post by Matt Maier
there are two answers to your question:

a) no, OpenSCAD can't directly produce a helix.  You can use linear_extrude to produce something very like a helicoid, but,
    it will be a crude, jaggy approximation.
b) yes, OpenSCAD can produce a helix - but you will have to do a significant amount of work.   

I make parts all the time that "screw together", using linear_extrude.   But, these parts have fairly loose fit "in theory", and
a very tight fit "in practice".   Most require considerable "lapping" to work properly.


Here's a code fragment to get you started:

// hRadius : radius of the stock cylinder
// hLength : length of the stock cylinder
// hTwist  : amount of twist (in degrees)
// hN      : number of sectors
// hGap    : size of clearance gap for sliding surfaces
module helicoid(hRadius,hLength,hTwist,hN,hGap)
{
 hSlices=10*hLength;
 linear_extrude(height=hLength,twist = hTwist,center=true,slices=hSlices)
 projection(cut=true)
 {
  for(i=[1:hN])
  {
   rotate(a=[0,0,(360*i)/hN])
    translate([-hGap,-hGap/2,-1])
     cube([hRadius+hGap,hGap,2]);    
  }
 }
}




--
Kenneth Sloan
[hidden email]



On Sep 27, 2012, at 23:18 , Matt Maier wrote:

Howdy,
I tried searching the archives but the only way I could find to view them was to browse by month...which got tedious.

First, I'm a little curious why OpenSCAD can't create a helix. It seems like the rotate function would be the most obvious way to do this but the manual says it can't. Just wondering if that's a limitation of the underlying structure.

Anywho, I'd like to be able to generate a simple triangular profile (threaded rod) without having to use something like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8796 which takes waaay too long to render. I mean, it does seem to work, but has anyone figured out a faster way?

I assume it would be possible to create arbitrary screw threads if you drew the right polyhedron, but without some kind of loop it wouldn't be parametric. Maybe a script outside of OpenSCAD could produce the right coordinates for all the points?

Cheers
Matt
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: building screw threads

robijn
Hello,

Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order to make helixes?
I can imagine something workable with the following parameters:
- amount of vertical movement per rotation
- total number of rotations.

So if you start with a circle of diameter 1 (like for a donut) but move 2 units upwards per rotation, you get a helix with a "fill factor" of 0.5.

Implementation can be done with 2 triangular polygon per area where normally (on a donut or so) would be 1 trapezoid polygon. I'm sorry if I don't use the proper terms exactly, I'm not an expert in this field.

Joris
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Re: building screw threads

Chow Loong Jin
On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 01:44:44AM -0700, robijn wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order
> to make helixes?
> I can imagine something workable with the following parameters:
> - amount of vertical movement per rotation
> - total number of rotations.

There's linear_extrude with the twist parameter, and then there's sweep() which
gives you generalized extrusion with certain transformations. If you look at the
commit log of github.com/openscad/MCAD's fasteners/threads.scad library, you'll
see an implementation I did using linear_extrude with twist, and the current one
that uses sweep.

linear_extrude with twist generated okay meshes as long as you lined up your
facets with the twist slice back in an older version of OpenSCAD, but looks
terrible now. See https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/901.

> [...]

--
Kind regards,
Loong Jin

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Re: building screw threads

Chow Loong Jin
On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 05:06:07PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 01:44:44AM -0700, robijn wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order
> > to make helixes?
> > I can imagine something workable with the following parameters:
> > - amount of vertical movement per rotation
> > - total number of rotations.
>
> There's linear_extrude with the twist parameter, and then there's sweep() which
> gives you generalized extrusion with certain transformations. If you look at the
> commit log of github.com/openscad/MCAD's fasteners/threads.scad library, you'll
> see an implementation I did using linear_extrude with twist, and the current one
> that uses sweep.
>
> linear_extrude with twist generated okay meshes as long as you lined up your
> facets with the twist slice back in an older version of OpenSCAD, but looks
> terrible now. See https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/901.
>
> > [...]
>
Sorry, forgot to mention that it's in the dev branch, so
https://github.com/openscad/MCAD/tree/dev/fasteners

--
Kind regards,
Loong Jin

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Re: building screw threads

Chow Loong Jin
On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 05:09:41PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 05:06:07PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 01:44:44AM -0700, robijn wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order
> > > to make helixes?
> > > I can imagine something workable with the following parameters:
> > > - amount of vertical movement per rotation
> > > - total number of rotations.
> >
> > There's linear_extrude with the twist parameter, and then there's sweep() which
> > gives you generalized extrusion with certain transformations. If you look at the
> > commit log of github.com/openscad/MCAD's fasteners/threads.scad library, you'll
> > see an implementation I did using linear_extrude with twist, and the current one
> > that uses sweep.
> >
> > linear_extrude with twist generated okay meshes as long as you lined up your
> > facets with the twist slice back in an older version of OpenSCAD, but looks
> > terrible now. See https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/901.
> >
> > > [...]
> >
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention that it's in the dev branch, so
> https://github.com/openscad/MCAD/tree/dev/fasteners
Umm, I mean https://github.com/openscad/MCAD/blob/dev/fasteners/threads.scad

--
Kind regards,
Loong Jin

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Re: building screw threads

robijn
I understand you can make similar things with linear_extrude. But the polygons will be
completely different and it will not look nearly as good. If you use linear_extrude with a lot of
rotations, the polygons will be very long stretched. You don't want this on threads. Many more
polygons are then needed to create something that looks reasonable acceptable. Rendering
times are 10 times what is actually be needed. And still it's not really good.

Also, conceptually, it is a different way of creating things. In the real world, extrusion
machines don't make threads, and there's a good reason for it: the angle cannot be that
great. To make a thread, you would place a shape at 90 degrees onto the work, like a cutter
on a lathe. You are shaping from a different angle.

The thread library is very nice, but the library could also be a lot easier if this type of rotating
extrusion would be natively supported. You would only need to use the following code to
make a nearly perfect thread:

module metric_thread( diameter, length, pitch );
  intersection() {
    translate( [0, 0, -pitch] )
      // create a thread from a polygon
      rotate_extrude( pitch=pitch, rotations=length/pitch+2 )
        polygon( points=[
          [0,0],
          [diameter,0],
          [diameter, pitch*1/16],
          [diameter-5/16*sqrt(3)*pitch, pitch*6/16],
          [diameter-5/16*sqrt(3)*pitch, pitch*10/16],
          [diameter, pitch*15/16],
          [diameter, pitch],
          [0, pitch], ] );
    // cut off the thread at top and bottom by intersecting with this cube
    translate( [-diameter/2, -diameter/2,0] )
      cube( [diameter,diameter,length] );
  }    
}



On 27 Oct 2015 at 2:11, Chow Loong Jin [via OpenSCAD] wrote:

>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 05:09:41PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 05:06:07PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 01:44:44AM -0700, robijn wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical
> motion, in order
> > > > to make helixes?
> > > > I can imagine something workable with the following
> parameters:
> > > > - amount of vertical movement per rotation
> > > > - total number of rotations.
> > >
> > > There's linear_extrude with the twist parameter, and then
> there's sweep() which
> > > gives you generalized extrusion with certain transformations. If
> you look at the
> > > commit log of github.com/openscad/MCAD's fasteners/threads.scad
> library, you'll
> > > see an implementation I did using linear_extrude with twist, and
> the current one
> > > that uses sweep.
> > >
> > > linear_extrude with twist generated okay meshes as long as you
> lined up your
> > > facets with the twist slice back in an older version of
> OpenSCAD, but looks
> > > terrible now. See
> https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/901.
> > >
> > > > [...]
> > >
> >
> > Sorry, forgot to mention that it's in the dev branch, so
> > https://github.com/openscad/MCAD/tree/dev/fasteners
> Umm, I mean
> https://github.com/openscad/MCAD/blob/dev/fasteners/threads.scad
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Loong Jin
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.or
> g
>
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>
>
>
>
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
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> http://forum.openscad.org/building-screw-threads-tp3280p14226.html
> To unsubscribe from building screw threads, click here.
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Re: building screw threads

Chow Loong Jin
On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:21:11PM +0100, Joris Robijn wrote:

> [...]
> module metric_thread( diameter, length, pitch );
>   intersection() {
>     translate( [0, 0, -pitch] )
>       // create a thread from a polygon
>       rotate_extrude( pitch=pitch, rotations=length/pitch+2 )
>         polygon( points=[
>           [0,0],
>           [diameter,0],
>           [diameter, pitch*1/16],
>           [diameter-5/16*sqrt(3)*pitch, pitch*6/16],
>           [diameter-5/16*sqrt(3)*pitch, pitch*10/16],
>           [diameter, pitch*15/16],
>           [diameter, pitch],
>           [0, pitch], ] );
>     // cut off the thread at top and bottom by intersecting with this cube
>     translate( [-diameter/2, -diameter/2,0] )
>       cube( [diameter,diameter,length] );
>   }    
> }
This snippet could possibly be abstracted out into a module to do what you want.
https://github.com/openscad/MCAD/blob/dev/fasteners/threads.scad#L202

--
Kind regards,
Loong Jin

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Re: building screw threads

kintel
Administrator
In reply to this post by robijn
> On Oct 27, 2015, at 04:44 AM, robijn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order
> to make helixes?

I like the idea of modifying rotate_extrude to allow for building helixes, although it’s a step backwards from providing more general extrusion functionality..

 -Marius


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Re: building screw threads

rnelias
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
 
It would be easily solved if OpenSCAD had support for extrusion through a parametric curve.

Consider the following helix:

f(t)=(a*cos(t), a*sen(t), b*t)

a thread's screw would be just a rectangle or triangle extruded over f(t) path

A screw could be easily created by a couple of commands:

1. build the helicoidal path
2. build the rectangle (or triangle or trapezoid)
3. extrude through f(t)
4. combine with an inner cylinder (screw's body)

done!

A spring would be just a circle extruded through f(t)
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Re: building screw threads

robijn
In reply to this post by kintel
Any chance this might make it in a future release? I'm running into this again now, and I don't like to the use libraries for this basic lathe functionality.
Would it be easy for me (having some C++ experience) to add it myself?

Best regards,
Joris




On 27 Oct 2015 at 6:42, kintel [via OpenSCAD] wrote:

> On Oct 27, 2015, at 04:44 AM, robijn < [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order
> to make helixes?

I like the idea of modifying rotate_extrude to allow for building helixes, although it's a step backwards from providing more general extrusion functionality..

 -Marius


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--
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www.videoregie.nl
Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31 6 288 41 964
  
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Re: building screw threads

robijn
In reply to this post by kintel

Any chance this might make it in a future release? I'm running into this again now, and I don't like to the use libraries for this basic lathe functionality.

Would it be easy for me (having some C++ experience) to add it myself?


Best regards,

Joris





On 27 Oct 2015 at 6:42, kintel [via OpenSCAD] wrote:

> On Oct 27, 2015, at 04:44 AM, robijn < [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Any chance rotate_extrude might be extended with vertical motion, in order
> to make helixes?

I like the idea of modifying rotate_extrude to allow for building helixes, although it's a step backwards from providing more general extrusion functionality..

 -Marius


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To unsubscribe from building screw threads, click here .
NAML


--
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www.videoregie.nl
Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Phone: +31 6 288 41 964
  

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Re: building screw threads

Parkinbot
In reply to this post by Matt Maier
Have a look at this. Not perfect, but fast and mighty.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1659079
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Re: building screw threads

kintel
Administrator
In reply to this post by robijn
> On Oct 14, 2016, at 06:15, Joris Robijn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Any chance this might make it in a future release? I'm running into this again now, and I don't like to the use libraries for this basic lathe functionality.
>
> Would it be easy for me (having some C++ experience) to add it myself?
>
It’s trivial to add the basic functionality.
Dealing with the public interface, corner cases and testing to get it accepted into OpenSCAD takes a bit more effort.

One idea could be to introduce a new built-in module for this; lathe() or helix() or smth.. That way we can leave rotate_extrude() alone. We still need to be careful as we have to maintain this function in the future.
Hopefully, in the future it would be possible to implement such a module in pure openscad.

 -Marius


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Re: building screw threads

Ronaldo
In reply to this post by robijn
Just curious: why you don't like to use libraries for this?

robijn wrote
Any chance this might make it in a future release? I'm running into this again now, and I don't like to the use libraries for this basic lathe functionality.
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