Win8 port?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
29 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Win8 port?

Eliot Gillum
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

donbright
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Eliot Gillum
In reply to this post by Eliot Gillum
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎April‎ ‎18‎, ‎2013 ‎01‎:‎39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Taylor Alexander
VLC is a video player app, so I doubt it would reduce the work at all.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 01:39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Taylor Alexander
Err, totally didn't read the mingw64 part. So I dunno.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Taylor Alexander <[hidden email]> wrote:
VLC is a video player app, so I doubt it would reduce the work at all.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 01:39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566



_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

kintel
Administrator
In reply to this post by Eliot Gillum
Hi,

Thinking about this again, I think the best way would be to write a native Metro GUI from scratch on top of the OpenSCAD core.
The OpenSCAD core is not dependent on Qt, so it should be a doable - it would also be a good opportunity to separate out the backend into a cleaner API instead of a bunch of C++ classes.

 -Marius

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Taylor Alexander
I'd love to see it designed so that there was some hope of running it on Android too. I support anything anyone wants to develop, but personally I think Android will have more longevity than Metro. If we can pave the way for Android, even if we do Metro first, i'll be stoked.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Marius Kintel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Thinking about this again, I think the best way would be to write a native Metro GUI from scratch on top of the OpenSCAD core.
The OpenSCAD core is not dependent on Qt, so it should be a doable - it would also be a good opportunity to separate out the backend into a cleaner API instead of a bunch of C++ classes.

 -Marius

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Brant Merryman
I've heard a (plausible) rumor that Microsoft is about to discontinue Metro at least on desktop systems in Windows 8.1. I used to work at Microsoft and still have friends there. No one can confirm it for sure, but people who work there think its plausible also. 

It's no reason not to make a Metro port, especially if that port can be useful for other things, or at least a Windows Phone version (where Metro is likely to continue).

On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Taylor Alexander <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd love to see it designed so that there was some hope of running it on Android too. I support anything anyone wants to develop, but personally I think Android will have more longevity than Metro. If we can pave the way for Android, even if we do Metro first, i'll be stoked.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Marius Kintel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Thinking about this again, I think the best way would be to write a native Metro GUI from scratch on top of the OpenSCAD core.
The OpenSCAD core is not dependent on Qt, so it should be a doable - it would also be a good opportunity to separate out the backend into a cleaner API instead of a bunch of C++ classes.

 -Marius

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

donbright
In reply to this post by Eliot Gillum
"Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?"

IMHO the first main problem will be the fact that Metro doesn't have OpenGL, meaning you need to port all of the OpenCSG library as well as hundreds of lines of OpenSCAD to something that will work on DirectX10/11. The second main problem is dealing with OpenSCAD's dependency libraries: gmp, mpfr, eigen, boost, CGAL, and OpenCSG, not to mention the testing tools of cmake and ImageMagick. Building those for Metro/ARM will require large amounts of experimentation, fiddling, twiddling, and glue code. Lastly is, as Marius mentioned, rewriting the GUI for a tablet-ish interface. IMHO its hundreds of hours of work. Also you need access to an ARM/Metro machine.

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 01:39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Whosawhatsis
Better to just make it run in a browser. There are several projects to make OpenSCAD or similar systems run in a browser, though I don't think any of them yet have a preview as quick as OpenCSG.

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Don Bright wrote:

"Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?"

IMHO the first main problem will be the fact that Metro doesn't have OpenGL, meaning you need to port all of the OpenCSG library as well as hundreds of lines of OpenSCAD to something that will work on DirectX10/11. The second main problem is dealing with OpenSCAD's dependency libraries: gmp, mpfr, eigen, boost, CGAL, and OpenCSG, not to mention the testing tools of cmake and ImageMagick. Building those for Metro/ARM will require large amounts of experimentation, fiddling, twiddling, and glue code. Lastly is, as Marius mentioned, rewriting the GUI for a tablet-ish interface. IMHO its hundreds of hours of work. Also you need access to an ARM/Metro machine.

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 01:39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566



_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Taylor Alexander

Oh yeah, what about OpenjsCAD? Does it have all the features OpenSCAD has? 'Cause it already runs in a browser that supports WebGL, which is more and more browsers these days.

On Apr 18, 2013 8:48 PM, "whosawhatsis" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Better to just make it run in a browser. There are several projects to make OpenSCAD or similar systems run in a browser, though I don't think any of them yet have a preview as quick as OpenCSG.

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Don Bright wrote:

"Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?"

IMHO the first main problem will be the fact that Metro doesn't have OpenGL, meaning you need to port all of the OpenCSG library as well as hundreds of lines of OpenSCAD to something that will work on DirectX10/11. The second main problem is dealing with OpenSCAD's dependency libraries: gmp, mpfr, eigen, boost, CGAL, and OpenCSG, not to mention the testing tools of cmake and ImageMagick. Building those for Metro/ARM will require large amounts of experimentation, fiddling, twiddling, and glue code. Lastly is, as Marius mentioned, rewriting the GUI for a tablet-ish interface. IMHO its hundreds of hours of work. Also you need access to an ARM/Metro machine.

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 01:39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566



_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Alan Cox
In reply to this post by donbright
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 18:59:24 -0500
Don Bright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?"
>
> IMHO the first main problem will be the fact that Metro doesn't have
> OpenGL, meaning you need to port all of the OpenCSG library as well as
> hundreds of lines of OpenSCAD to something that will work on DirectX10/11.
> The second main problem is dealing with OpenSCAD's dependency libraries:
> gmp, mpfr, eigen, boost, CGAL, and OpenCSG, not to mention the testing
> tools of cmake and ImageMagick. Building those for Metro/ARM will require
> large amounts of experimentation, fiddling, twiddling, and glue code.
> Lastly is, as Marius mentioned, rewriting the GUI for a tablet-ish
> interface. IMHO its hundreds of hours of work. Also you need access to an
> ARM/Metro machine.

And you'll need a whole pile of Microsoft thing including developer
licenses and certification SDK toolkits. Unlike Android you can't simply
lob it into your tablet and debug it.

I am dubious that many of the ARM devices have the CPU power
(particularly FPU) to run OpenSCAD usefully. A web based OpenSCAD with
crunching done on the server end may well be more useful - and would just
be a straight HTML5/WebGL interface (in fact you don't even need WebGL
really except for being able to wave the rendered object around smoothly)

Alan
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Taylor Alexander

These machines can render 3D car racing games at a simulated 150+mph speed. I think they can crunch the numbers necessary to mash some primitives together, unless the algorithms aren't efficiently written.

On Apr 19, 2013 3:32 AM, "Alan Cox" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 18:59:24 -0500
Don Bright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?"
>
> IMHO the first main problem will be the fact that Metro doesn't have
> OpenGL, meaning you need to port all of the OpenCSG library as well as
> hundreds of lines of OpenSCAD to something that will work on DirectX10/11.
> The second main problem is dealing with OpenSCAD's dependency libraries:
> gmp, mpfr, eigen, boost, CGAL, and OpenCSG, not to mention the testing
> tools of cmake and ImageMagick. Building those for Metro/ARM will require
> large amounts of experimentation, fiddling, twiddling, and glue code.
> Lastly is, as Marius mentioned, rewriting the GUI for a tablet-ish
> interface. IMHO its hundreds of hours of work. Also you need access to an
> ARM/Metro machine.

And you'll need a whole pile of Microsoft thing including developer
licenses and certification SDK toolkits. Unlike Android you can't simply
lob it into your tablet and debug it.

I am dubious that many of the ARM devices have the CPU power
(particularly FPU) to run OpenSCAD usefully. A web based OpenSCAD with
crunching done on the server end may well be more useful - and would just
be a straight HTML5/WebGL interface (in fact you don't even need WebGL
really except for being able to wave the rendered object around smoothly)

Alan
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Alan Cox
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:38:23 -0700
Taylor Alexander <[hidden email]> wrote:

> These machines can render 3D car racing games at a simulated 150+mph speed.

No they can't. The graphics processor in them does almost all the work.
It's like when you watch movies on them. This is really good
implementation and design for gaming purposes not just from a processing
point of view but a power one. Unfortunately it's not very useful for
computing STL and intersecting multi-megabyte matrices.

The simulated speed btw is irrelevant, its only the framerate that really
matters. In fact higher speed is often much easier to render because your
eyes don't see the mistakes so well. It's like playing fast music is
sometimes easier than slow !

> I think they can crunch the numbers necessary to mash some primitives
> together, unless the algorithms aren't efficiently written.

Many of the objects I 3D print have render times of about 60 seconds to
generate the STL. That's on a Core i5 2400S with 16GB of RAM running in
64bit mode. It could be a lot faster if OpenSCAD could parallelise but
thats a whole exciting story of its own.

You can get a pretty good feel for this by running code on an ARM
linux box. Pick one with an FPU though !

Alan
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

donbright
In reply to this post by Whosawhatsis

WebGL is fine but it's bleeding-edge and there are hundreds of millions of old machines (like mine) that can do normal OpenGL but cannot do WebGL because the implementations just are not there yet. Plus the fact that Internet Explorer doesn't support WebGL. Also it is possible that OpenCSG cannot be ported to WebGL although there may be alternatives: http://blog.3dtin.com/page/4/



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:48 PM, whosawhatsis <[hidden email]> wrote:
Better to just make it run in a browser. There are several projects to make OpenSCAD or similar systems run in a browser, though I don't think any of them yet have a preview as quick as OpenCSG.

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Don Bright wrote:

"Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?"

IMHO the first main problem will be the fact that Metro doesn't have OpenGL, meaning you need to port all of the OpenCSG library as well as hundreds of lines of OpenSCAD to something that will work on DirectX10/11. The second main problem is dealing with OpenSCAD's dependency libraries: gmp, mpfr, eigen, boost, CGAL, and OpenCSG, not to mention the testing tools of cmake and ImageMagick. Building those for Metro/ARM will require large amounts of experimentation, fiddling, twiddling, and glue code. Lastly is, as Marius mentioned, rewriting the GUI for a tablet-ish interface. IMHO its hundreds of hours of work. Also you need access to an ARM/Metro machine.

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 01:39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566



_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Alan Cox
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 06:49:50 -0500
Don Bright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> WebGL is fine but it's bleeding-edge and there are hundreds of millions of
> old machines (like mine) that can do normal OpenGL but cannot do WebGL

Pretty much any vaguely modern PC class machine can run WebGL. And if you
are stuck with some dinosaur you can render and upload an image to the
target browser. It's a bit spottier on phones. There are also flash
plugins for 3D image visualisation on legacy systems.

> because the implementations just are not there yet. Plus the fact that
> Internet Explorer doesn't support WebGL.

Plenty of other browsers available. Microsoft will apparently be
supporting it in IE11 - a few years later than everyone else.

Alan
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

kintel
Administrator
In reply to this post by donbright
On 2013-04-19, at 07:49 , Don Bright wrote:
>
> WebGL is fine but […]
> […] it is possible that OpenCSG cannot be ported to WebGL although there may be alternatives: http://blog.3dtin.com/page/4/
>
I believe WebGL is the future - it might leave behind some old hardware/software stacks, which is perfectly normal. WebGL seems to gain traction quickly these days (ref. Microsoft's decision to cave in and support the standard even though they're "boycotting" OpenGL itself).

I've been talking to Jayesh of 3Dtin about OpenCSG - it's a tough task, but I would love to take the challenge. WebGL has some severe limitations making it hard to do though. I don't recall the details right now, but it was something in the direction of not being able to read the depth buffer.

But regarding web GUI: I think it would make a lot of sense. As a start, perhaps we could host the web GUI from the native app itself and let OpenSCAD run headless?

 -Marius

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

clothbot
On 2013-04-19, at 11:00 AM, Marius Kintel wrote:
On 2013-04-19, at 07:49 , Don Bright wrote:

WebGL is fine but […]
[…] it is possible that OpenCSG cannot be ported to WebGL although there may be alternatives: http://blog.3dtin.com/page/4/

I believe WebGL is the future - it might leave behind some old hardware/software stacks, which is perfectly normal. WebGL seems to gain traction quickly these days (ref. Microsoft's decision to cave in and support the standard even though they're "boycotting" OpenGL itself).

I've been talking to Jayesh of 3Dtin about OpenCSG - it's a tough task, but I would love to take the challenge. WebGL has some severe limitations making it hard to do though. I don't recall the details right now, but it was something in the direction of not being able to read the depth buffer.

But regarding web GUI: I think it would make a lot of sense. As a start, perhaps we could host the web GUI from the native app itself and let OpenSCAD run headless?

-Marius

A thought-experiment I've been mulling over for a while now is, what if the OpenCSG backend were replaced with a 2.5D "slice-based" engine optimized for cartesian X-Y plane slices along the Z axis?

Do as much of the pre-mesh mathematical translation, rotation and mathematical shape prep work to get all the parts aligned in world-relative coordinate system. Then slice everything at a given target machine/world grid resolution.  Multi-process/thread the boolean operations on the 2D slices and spit out either a DXF pile-of-layers file or reconstruct an STL mesh from the pile of slices.

Andrew.


--

"The future is already here.  It's just not very evenly distributed" -- William Gibson

Me: http://clothbot.com/wiki/




_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

kintel
Administrator
On 2013-04-19, at 12:13 , Andrew Plumb wrote:
>
> A thought-experiment I've been mulling over for a while now is, what if the OpenCSG backend were replaced with a 2.5D "slice-based" engine optimized for cartesian X-Y plane slices along the Z axis?
>
I've been thinking about the same. 3D printers want slice stacks anyway, so it would make sense. Doing CSG in 2D is slightly less expensive than in 3D.

Some objects still needs to be evaluated somehow (e.g. minkowski, hull), but that already the case for OpenCSG previews.

Also, slicers need to do some kind of global analysis to build support material and bridges, but I assume it would be relatively easy to make slicers import a slice stack instead of an STL.

Internally, the conversion from an internal CSG tree to something which is rendered/exported is done using Tree visitors. We have one for doing a CGAL evaluation and another one for creating CSG terms for OpenCSG rendering. We could write a third one for doing a slice stack, so this could be a relatively isolated task.

 -Marius

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Win8 port?

Eliot Gillum
In reply to this post by Eliot Gillum
Unexpectedly, OpenSCAD *isn't* running on my *x86* Surface Pro.  It exits instantly, and provides no diagnostic information.
 
Running it under a debugger got some sort crash but without symbols I couldn't make out a good stack trace.  I got some sort of generic error code, like "file not found," when I checked ERRORLEVEL after exit.
 
Does anyone know why OpenSCAD would have trouble on Win8 or Surface Pro's?  I've been running it on other Win8 machines with absolutely no issue, but I can't figure out what might be specific to this one.
                                     Eliot
 
 

From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Win8 port?
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 08:47:23 +0000

I have both kinds actually.  x86/Pro at work and ARM/RT here at home.  I’m sure it would work great as-is on the Pro of course, but I was referring to the “modern” environment, as that would presumably provide a better tablet experience and I don’t think WinRT allows classic apps to be installed by the Store.
 
That’s great to hear that another great project is being ported!  Assuming their work was done, how much would be left to do for OpenSCAD?  Obviously some reimagining of the UI, but wouldn’t it reduce the bulk of the potential work?
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 
From: Don Bright
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎April‎ ‎18‎, ‎2013 ‎01‎:‎39
To: [hidden email]
 
What kind of Surface do you have? OpenSCAD should run normally on Windows 8 on an x86 style machine. It should install just like any other old 3rd party 'legacy' windows program. I have tested it on a laptop with this configuration.

 
The Windows RT / ARM based Surfaces would be quite a bit of work - the VLC project recently did a Kickstarter campaign to port VLC to "Metro" (for both Windows 8 and Windows RT) and are laying a lot of the groundwork that other open source projects will need to use to get this working - like modifying mingw64, etc etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro/posts

-DB



On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Eliot Gillum <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here but loving OpenSCAD. I’ve been using it to design objects for my Makerbot Replicator.
 
When I recently got a Surface, however, I thought “this device would be great to model on” as it has a keyboard and mouse, yet could provide the tablet/couch experience, and would be more discoverable to potential users via the new Store. And OpenSCAD has a great history of cross-platform compatibility to leverage.
 
I spoke with Marius about the possibility and he seemed open to it and we didn’t identify any immediate blockers.  Neither he nor I are in a great place to do the work ourselves, however.
 
So my question is thus: what would it take for someone out there to make this a reality?  Is the idea alone compelling enough by itself? Do we need to raise funds to support someone in this activity, perhaps via crowdsourcing?
 
Thanks in advance for considering the idea with me, and thanks in retrospect to those who have already contributed to this great program!
Eliot
 
Sent from Windows 8 before everyone knew how cool it was
 

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566


_______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://rocklinux.net/mailman/listinfo/openscad
http://openscad.org - https://flattr.com/thing/121566
12