Mobius automaton

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Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
I'm playing with the idea of making a mobius strip automaton. Any ideas how
one might mount such an arrangement?
<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t622/GIFMaker.gif>



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Re: Mobius automaton

Neon22
Looks great.
Try two of the rollers fixed(non driven but with bearings) and just
drive the last one.


On 12/23/2017 2:05 PM, Greg Frost wrote:
> I'm playing with the idea of making a mobius strip automaton. Any ideas how
> one might mount such an arrangement?
> <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t622/GIFMaker.gif>
>
>
>


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Re: Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
But you'd need some kind of a shaft passer mechanism in order for it to allow the full rotation.


> On 23 Dec 2017, at 11:42 am, Mark Schafer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Looks great.
> Try two of the rollers fixed(non driven but with bearings) and just drive the last one.
>
>
>> On 12/23/2017 2:05 PM, Greg Frost wrote:
>> I'm playing with the idea of making a mobius strip automaton. Any ideas how
>> one might mount such an arrangement?
>> <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t622/GIFMaker.gif>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Mobius automaton

TLC123
Or maybe some kind of ring that rotates out of the way
  https://pasteboard.co/GZyuPOUD.gif <https://pasteboard.co/GZyuPOUD.gif>  



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Re: Mobius automaton

Parkinbot
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Greg Frost
Greg

this is a very nice one. I should be fun to fab it as a very large
sculpture.

Why not implementing it as pogo stick ... :-)





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Re: Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
How about this one:  <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t622/ringading.gif>
The outer blue races could be mounted solidly and the inner blue
construction would be forced to remain in place because there is always at
least 2 green rings in it.



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Re: Mobius automaton

Parkinbot
Greg,

one of the three units would be enough. But in my eyes even then it will
have too much structure and loose its elegancy.



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Re: Mobius automaton

codifies

I think you'd need at *least* two rings, if you don't anchor the top and bottom of this design, it just wouldn't work...

I'd be impressed enough to see a working design just to rotate a plain torus shape in this manner...


On 24/12/17 11:30, Parkinbot wrote:
Greg, 

one of the three units would be enough. But in my eyes even then it will
have too much structure and loose its elegancy. 



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Re: Mobius automaton

Parkinbot
Ok, here's another one. The ring bends up in the right moment.

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t887/my.gif>



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Re: Mobius automaton

nophead
Can you have a slot in the mobius band that is narrow enough that it still goes through the rollers and then a thin support that the slot misses?

On 25 December 2017 at 01:07, Parkinbot <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok, here's another one. The ring bends up in the right moment.

<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t887/my.gif>



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Re: Mobius automaton

Ronaldo
I would prefer to emphasize the unfolding of the Moebius ring.




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Re: Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
I was thinking about that too. Both types of sculpture have merit I think. This should be possible with some sort of planetary gear driving the ring. I also like nophead's idea of a slot in the strip which I am modelling.

On 26 Dec 2017, at 4:51 am, Ronaldo Persiano <[hidden email]> wrote:

I would prefer to emphasize the unfolding of the Moebius ring.

<MoebiusAnim.gif>

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Re: Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
Ronaldo's idea would require synchronisation between the drive wheels and the ring holding them. This may require teeth to maintain sync. The benefit of nophead's idea is you could use a friction fit where some slip would not matter.
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Re: Mobius automaton

Neon22
two drive rings side by side would offer stability and enable friction
drive.


On 12/26/2017 5:56 PM, Greg Frost wrote:

> Ronaldo's idea would require synchronisation between the drive wheels and the ring holding them. This may require teeth to maintain sync. The benefit of nophead's idea is you could use a friction fit where some slip would not matter.
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Re: Mobius automaton

Peter Falke
You could put a grove into the sides, than you could get by with only two rollers.





2017-12-26 11:20 GMT+01:00 Mark Schafer <[hidden email]>:
two drive rings side by side would offer stability and enable friction drive.



On 12/26/2017 5:56 PM, Greg Frost wrote:
Ronaldo's idea would require synchronisation between the drive wheels and the ring holding them. This may require teeth to maintain sync. The benefit of nophead's idea is you could use a friction fit where some slip would not matter.
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Re: Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
Nophead's idea of a slot seems to work fine. Now I have to work out how I
want to drive the mechanism.
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Re: Mobius automaton

codifies
a fine theory (the animation) I'd love to see it working in actuality!


On 27/12/17 07:34, Greg Frost wrote:

> Nophead's idea of a slot seems to work fine. Now I have to work out how I
> want to drive the mechanism.
> <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t622/Webp.gif>
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Re: Mobius automaton

Greg Frost
Yes. Getting the alignment right is likely to be non trivial, so although it looks like it might work, there is a big risk that it won't.

So I have started looking at Ronaldo Persiano's idea of rotating the rollers that hold the möbius so that the strip looks like it is unfolding. The rotation will have to precisely relate to the feed rate of the rollers or it won't stay vertical. This is why I thought the möbius will need to have teeth to mesh with the rollers so that things can't get out of sync. Also, it is tricky to mesh the rotation of the rollers with the rotation of the frame that holds them. I have an idea that I think might work, but I'm finding it difficult to model.

> On 27 Dec 2017, at 9:34 pm, Chris Camacho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> a fine theory (the animation) I'd love to see it working in actuality!
>
>
>> On 27/12/17 07:34, Greg Frost wrote:
>> Nophead's idea of a slot seems to work fine. Now I have to work out how I
>> want to drive the mechanism.
>> <http://forum.openscad.org/file/t622/Webp.gif>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Mobius automaton

Parkinbot
Greg,
- Yes, you are right, proper alignment of a narrow permanent slot is too
delicate. I'm convinced that it is much easier to include some bending or
hinge-based mechanics (and electronics) into the moebius that opens the ring
only during pass-by. It can be triggered e.g. by a hall sensor. Electric
supply is possible by conductor rails along the mobius faces ().

- Ronaldos proposal can easily be realized with synchron motors (steppers)
with geared Moebius faces. The controller and drivers for the inner steppers
(three at best) will have to travel with the motors. Two conductors allow
for power supply (also carrying a sync peak).



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Re: Mobius automaton

codifies
I'd rather suspect less is more with this sort of implementation
whatever is most simple / elegant is likely to be implementable, as it
is I'm not even sure that nice 3 ring structure would actually work in
reality...


On 27/12/17 15:43, Parkinbot wrote:

> Greg,
> - Yes, you are right, proper alignment of a narrow permanent slot is too
> delicate. I'm convinced that it is much easier to include some bending or
> hinge-based mechanics (and electronics) into the moebius that opens the ring
> only during pass-by. It can be triggered e.g. by a hall sensor. Electric
> supply is possible by conductor rails along the mobius faces ().
>
> - Ronaldos proposal can easily be realized with synchron motors (steppers)
> with geared Moebius faces. The controller and drivers for the inner steppers
> (three at best) will have to travel with the motors. Two conductors allow
> for power supply (also carrying a sync peak).
>
>
>
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