Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
41 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
Tried sending this before and it didn't go through.

Image of the design at: https://imgur.com/g9pQxS6

It was also discussed at:
The problems are:
  • performance at any reasonable quality level is glacial --- the app essentially becomes unusable
  • the rounding is simply a straight-line move --- how do I get those numbers out of RapCAD or OpenSCAD and into a DXF or SVG? I'm not seeing a way to get these coordinates written out to a file or to put a non-closed path into a DXF or SVG

There simply isn't a way to export an open path in a DXF from OpenSCAD --- I don't want to use a rectangle since that may result in a doubling back on the cut and increased machine time.

Another consideration is I can't find a CAM tool which will model a radiused endmill such as: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q8M1SRS

A simple work-around would be if OpenSCAD would allow opening a text file and writing out coordinate information --- this would be a lot easier than the parallel-coding I've used for simpler projects:


http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/tb40-2/tb125adams-3d.pdf

If that's not an option --- do any of the OpenSCAD alternatives allow writing out text files? I'm wondering if I shouldn't just try writing out G-Code directly.

Please don't tell me to just use Autodesk Fusion 360 --- I can't afford the bar bill that would require --- if someone has a suggestion for FreeCAD tutorials which would guide along this I'd be glad of them though.

William




_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

nophead
I get text out of OpenSCAD by using echo and the command line and capturing it with a Python script that extracts the text from the echo format. There is no access to the geometry coordinates though unless you generate it with polygon, etc.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 14:18, William F. Adams via Discuss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tried sending this before and it didn't go through.

Image of the design at: https://imgur.com/g9pQxS6

It was also discussed at:
The problems are:
  • performance at any reasonable quality level is glacial --- the app essentially becomes unusable
  • the rounding is simply a straight-line move --- how do I get those numbers out of RapCAD or OpenSCAD and into a DXF or SVG? I'm not seeing a way to get these coordinates written out to a file or to put a non-closed path into a DXF or SVG

There simply isn't a way to export an open path in a DXF from OpenSCAD --- I don't want to use a rectangle since that may result in a doubling back on the cut and increased machine time.

Another consideration is I can't find a CAM tool which will model a radiused endmill such as: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q8M1SRS

A simple work-around would be if OpenSCAD would allow opening a text file and writing out coordinate information --- this would be a lot easier than the parallel-coding I've used for simpler projects:



If that's not an option --- do any of the OpenSCAD alternatives allow writing out text files? I'm wondering if I shouldn't just try writing out G-Code directly.

Please don't tell me to just use Autodesk Fusion 360 --- I can't afford the bar bill that would require --- if someone has a suggestion for FreeCAD tutorials which would guide along this I'd be glad of them though.

William



_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
If I could create the design as a polygon I'd start there --- maybe arguably that's the better route --- have a master program which writes out both an OpenSCAD file and a matching G-Code file --- but I'd really rather just do it from w/in OpenSCAD or a similar 3D modeling tool.

Toolpath Language isn't an option since it can't model radius endmills.

I've gone ahead and put in an issue w/ both OpenSCAD and RapCAD to add the ability to write out numbers from calculations to a text file --- that and some plain text would let one directly create G-Code which would allow either be a very powerful 3D CAM tool.

If there's some other scripted 3D modeling tool which allows writing out numbers from calculation and text already I'd be glad to hear of it.

William


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
Thanks!

Raised an issue on GitHub and had some really good discussion there:

https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/3400

Just adding a pair of menus to the File menu:

File | Save Console Text (Filtered) == only the text added in the .scad file programmatically using either echo or some new command

and 

Save Console Text (Complete) == all the text in the Console area

and having a command which would allow specifying the file extension (and name, though using the current filename would be fine for me) would work.

It would be a lot easier for me, and I think more expressive than the alternatives:

 - using a second programming language to write out a matched pair of .scad and .nc (G-Code) files
 - using a second programming language to capture the text output from the console and filter it to create the G-Code file

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider this.

William





_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
Issue was closed, so continuing this at:




-----Original Message-----
From: William F. Adams via Discuss <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Cc: William F. Adams <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wed, Aug 12, 2020 8:31 am
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

Thanks!

Raised an issue on GitHub and had some really good discussion there:

https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/3400

Just adding a pair of menus to the File menu:

File | Save Console Text (Filtered) == only the text added in the .scad file programmatically using either echo or some new command

and 

Save Console Text (Complete) == all the text in the Console area

and having a command which would allow specifying the file extension (and name, though using the current filename would be fine for me) would work.

It would be a lot easier for me, and I think more expressive than the alternatives:

 - using a second programming language to write out a matched pair of .scad and .nc (G-Code) files
 - using a second programming language to capture the text output from the console and filter it to create the G-Code file

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider this.

William




_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Potential uses for writing out text files from OpenSCAD (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
Still surprised this issue was closed with such little consideration.

Writing out text files from OpenSCAD could be quite useful (and apparently some folks are already using the Console output by filtering it --- allowing a bit more control over writing out files would make this far more workable).

Potential uses:

 - debugging
 - calculating coordinates to make specialized files such as polygons
 - B.O.M.s
 - assembly instructions and other documentation
 - doing CAM as raw G-Code

Just adding a parallel output where if one called echo() only that text was written out to a second file (with a user configurable file extension) would work --- no added menu entry, just a pair of configuration options:

[ ] write out echo text in separate file
[ ] custom file extension, use ____ instead of .txt

would work for me.

William


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Potential uses for writing out text files from OpenSCAD (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

acwest
I would find general file io to be VERY useful, it would allow me to
write code to support file type we don't currently support, for both
input and output

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM William F. Adams via Discuss
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Still surprised this issue was closed with such little consideration.
>
> Writing out text files from OpenSCAD could be quite useful (and apparently some folks are already using the Console output by filtering it --- allowing a bit more control over writing out files would make this far more workable).
>
> Potential uses:
>
>  - debugging
>  - calculating coordinates to make specialized files such as polygons
>  - B.O.M.s
>  - assembly instructions and other documentation
>  - doing CAM as raw G-Code
>
> Just adding a parallel output where if one called echo() only that text was written out to a second file (with a user configurable file extension) would work --- no added menu entry, just a pair of configuration options:
>
> [ ] write out echo text in separate file
> [ ] custom file extension, use ____ instead of .txt
>
> would work for me.
>
> William
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Potential uses for writing out text files from OpenSCAD (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

JordanBrown
If you want to experiment with writing other file types, it's not too hard.  Use echo() and copy-paste the output, or run OpenSCAD from the command line and capture the output.  You'd have to post-process it a bit to remove the noise, but it wouldn't be terribly hard.  nop head does this to generate BOMs.  I do it to generate lists of models from multi-model files.

But make sure that you can actually do what you want before thinking about adding new features.  Remember that nothing in the OpenSCAD language has access to the coordinates.
translate([x,y,z]) {
    /* Nothing here has any way to access the the new origin in global coordinates. */
}
If you want access to the coordinates you'd have to do your own transforms in parallel.


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Potential uses for writing out text files from OpenSCAD (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

acwest
I am actually more interested in arbitrary file input, but both input and output would be useful. Must of my libraries work entirely in userspace, so I have all of the co-ordinate already

On Thu, 13 Aug 2020, 11:43 Jordan Brown, <[hidden email]> wrote:
If you want to experiment with writing other file types, it's not too hard.  Use echo() and copy-paste the output, or run OpenSCAD from the command line and capture the output.  You'd have to post-process it a bit to remove the noise, but it wouldn't be terribly hard.  nop head does this to generate BOMs.  I do it to generate lists of models from multi-model files.

But make sure that you can actually do what you want before thinking about adding new features.  Remember that nothing in the OpenSCAD language has access to the coordinates.
translate([x,y,z]) {
    /* Nothing here has any way to access the the new origin in global coordinates. */
}
If you want access to the coordinates you'd have to do your own transforms in parallel.

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

cbernhardt
In reply to this post by OpenSCAD mailing list-2
To answer your original question “how do I get those numbers out of RapCAD or
OpenSCAD and into a DXF or SVG?”
I took your 3d_Fingerjoint.scad file and exported it to an STL.  I imported
the STL file into AutoCAD and traced a POLYLINE around the boundary of the 4
pieces and then exported a DXF file of just the POLYLINES.  And imported
that into OpenSCAD.  I can understand why you choose not to use AutoCAD but
FreeCAD (according to their manual) can do the same thing.
<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t1309/outline.jpg>



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
I don't need a tracing of the outlines, I need a series of offset lines for specific fingers --- the radiuscut module movements.

As I've noted in pseudo code I have the numbers there (I appreciate JordanBrown's note about the numbers being in the local coordinate space --- I'll have to see if it's necessary to re-work things so that any transforms are taken into consideration --- actually, this is pretty easily done in G-Code).

Yes, I know now that I can write things into the Console and extract/filter them --- but that's a lot of extra post-processing which isn't convenient, and isn't suited for a naïve end-user and I'd like for this to be a supported and turnkey usage of OpenSCAD.

Is there an OpenSCAD developer who is interested in CNC and doesn't have a machine and who thinks implementing this would be feasible? If so, please contact me directly and we'll see what can be worked out.

William


-----Original Message-----
From: cbernhardt <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

To answer your original question “how do I get those numbers out of RapCAD or

OpenSCAD and into a DXF or SVG?”

I took your 3d_Fingerjoint.scad file and exported it to an STL.  I imported
the STL file into AutoCAD and traced a POLYLINE around the boundary of the 4
pieces and then exported a DXF file of just the POLYLINES.  And imported
that into OpenSCAD.  I can understand why you choose not to use AutoCAD but
FreeCAD (according to their manual) can do the same thing.
<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t1309/outline.jpg>



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

mondo

Hi William, I've not followed this whole thread, but if you want to cnc finger joints, I would not start with scad. What cutting tool will you be using, and what is the material? What tolerances are you looking for? Unless you intend standing the pieces on edge, you will not get square corners profiling them with a router bit, although if in wood, with a small diameter bit, woodfiller can solve that. If you are using edm, plasma, laser or waterjet, then that will require a different solution, depending on how thick the material is too. The tricky area is the interface between theory and practicality. It would be relatively trivial to 3d print it, if it was just a proof of the model you were looking for - But you'd most likely have to take into account tolerances again.

Best wishes,

Ray

On 13/08/2020 18:54, William F. Adams via Discuss wrote:
I don't need a tracing of the outlines, I need a series of offset lines for specific fingers --- the radiuscut module movements.

As I've noted in pseudo code I have the numbers there (I appreciate JordanBrown's note about the numbers being in the local coordinate space --- I'll have to see if it's necessary to re-work things so that any transforms are taken into consideration --- actually, this is pretty easily done in G-Code).

Yes, I know now that I can write things into the Console and extract/filter them --- but that's a lot of extra post-processing which isn't convenient, and isn't suited for a naïve end-user and I'd like for this to be a supported and turnkey usage of OpenSCAD.

Is there an OpenSCAD developer who is interested in CNC and doesn't have a machine and who thinks implementing this would be feasible? If so, please contact me directly and we'll see what can be worked out.

William


-----Original Message-----
From: cbernhardt [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?

To answer your original question “how do I get those numbers out of RapCAD or

OpenSCAD and into a DXF or SVG?”

I took your 3d_Fingerjoint.scad file and exported it to an STL.  I imported
the STL file into AutoCAD and traced a POLYLINE around the boundary of the 4
pieces and then exported a DXF file of just the POLYLINES.  And imported
that into OpenSCAD.  I can understand why you choose not to use AutoCAD but
FreeCAD (according to their manual) can do the same thing.
<http://forum.openscad.org/file/t1309/outline.jpg>



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Potential uses for writing out text files from OpenSCAD (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

MichaelAtOz
Administrator
In reply to this post by acwest

> arbitrary file input

 

You can get close with include <>, if you wrap the data with "file1=[" and "];"

You would need to format to suit.

 

 

 


From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of A. Craig West
Sent: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 01:55
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Potential uses for writing out text files from OpenSCAD (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

 

I am actually more interested in arbitrary file input, but both input and output would be useful. Must of my libraries work entirely in userspace, so I have all of the co-ordinate already

 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2020, 11:43 Jordan Brown, <[hidden email]> wrote:

If you want to experiment with writing other file types, it's not too hard.  Use echo() and copy-paste the output, or run OpenSCAD from the command line and capture the output.  You'd have to post-process it a bit to remove the noise, but it wouldn't be terribly hard.  nop head does this to generate BOMs.  I do it to generate lists of models from multi-model files.

But make sure that you can actually do what you want before thinking about adding new features.  Remember that nothing in the OpenSCAD language has access to the coordinates.

translate([x,y,z]) {
    /* Nothing here has any way to access the the new origin in global coordinates. */
}

If you want access to the coordinates you'd have to do your own transforms in parallel.

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org


Virus-free. www.avg.com

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
* on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain;
to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work.
Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
In reply to this post by mondo
Ray West wrote:

>I've not followed this whole thread,

Apparently.

>but if you want to cnc finger joints, I would not start with scad.

It's the CAD tool which I prefer to use --- and I've modeled fingerjoints in it before:

https://community.carbide3d.com/t/cnc-finger-joint-box/8880

>What cutting tool will you be using, and what is the material?

I am planning on using a 1/4" square endmill, a 1/16" ball-nosed tapered endmill, and a 1/4" radiusing endmill.

>What tolerances are you looking for?

Tight enough for a void free joint.

>Unless you intend standing the pieces on edge, you will not get square corners profiling them with a router bit,

I created a fixture for doing that:

https://cutrocket.com/p/5cb25f3380844/

and I've cut boxes thus:

https://cutrocket.com/p/5cb536396c281/

It's a tedious pain.

>although if in wood, with a small diameter bit, woodfiller can solve that.

The refuge of the incompetent woodworker --- I'm trying to design a joinery system where joints have no visible voids --- hence the radius endmill which I intend to use to relieve the fingers to match the radius left by the 1/4" endmill. See the images at:

https://community.carbide3d.com/t/design-into-3d-boxes-magazine-storage/16238/54

and

https://community.carbide3d.com/t/cnc-finger-joint-box/8880/113

and

https://imgur.com/g9pQxS6

William


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: !![SPAM]!! Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

mondo

Hi,

Use scad for showing the picture, but imnsho, you would be better off generating the gcode separately. I've attached a screen shot of a simple box generator - no cad used whatsoever. The joints are not finger joints, but are a sort of stepped butt joint, modern glues are stronger than the wood.

I'm not sure if you need the ballnosed bit, or the tapered bit. Tool changing is a pain, unless you have some high end machine, or possibly designing a machine specifically for making finger joints. I've used  cutters similar to this, quite successfully for wood carving, which sort of combines a taper and a ballend.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/SpeTool-Tapered-2-Flute-0-25mm-Coated/dp/B077883PDW/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=tapered+milling+cutter&qid=1597401368&sr=8-13

I'm guessing you have a sort of flatbed cnc routing table, and you do not really want to have to change tool bits, or manipulate the sheet which you are machining, and all pieces will be the same thickness for an individual box. I hope the juice will be worth the squeeze. It will be fun getting the fingers correct at the corners. Maybe start by restricting the dimensions to a multiple of the finger size  plus.

Best wishes,


Ray

On 14/08/2020 02:56, William F. Adams via Discuss wrote:
Ray West wrote:

>I've not followed this whole thread,

Apparently.

>but if you want to cnc finger joints, I would not start with scad.

It's the CAD tool which I prefer to use --- and I've modeled fingerjoints in it before:


>What cutting tool will you be using, and what is the material?

I am planning on using a 1/4" square endmill, a 1/16" ball-nosed tapered endmill, and a 1/4" radiusing endmill.

>What tolerances are you looking for?

Tight enough for a void free joint.

>Unless you intend standing the pieces on edge, you will not get square corners profiling them with a router bit,

I created a fixture for doing that:


and I've cut boxes thus:


It's a tedious pain.

>although if in wood, with a small diameter bit, woodfiller can solve that.

The refuge of the incompetent woodworker --- I'm trying to design a joinery system where joints have no visible voids --- hence the radius endmill which I intend to use to relieve the fingers to match the radius left by the 1/4" endmill. See the images at:


and


and


William


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

boxer gui.tif (1M) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
I've done boxes like that already:

https://willadams.gitbook.io/design-into-3d/3d-project and https://cutrocket.com/p/5e8fd99cc1578/

and as noted, I've already managed to get the corners right for a fingerjoint box, which was the beginning of this conversation which apparently no one deemed worthy of actually looking at.

https://imgur.com/g9pQxS6

I want to do my CAD and CAM in OpenSCAD --- all I need to make it available to in an elegant (in terms of scientifically correct) and robust fashion which naïve users can make use of it is a way to get some numbers which I am using to call modules in OpenSCAD already into a text file without any extraneous stuff which has to be filtered out.

Yes, I could use some 3rd party tool --- then I get to tell folks:

 - install OpenSCAD and use it to set up your design
 - install a second tool, and run this other file as well, and tell it where you put your OpenSCAD file and what name you saved your Customizer preset under

It's an unnecessary complication --- if only OpenSCAD would be allowed to have a bit more control over writing out text files --- which would be useful for other purposes as well such as B.O.M.s

Yes, I've done something along those lines as documented in my article in:

http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/Contents/contents40-2.html

but it's a lot of extra baggage when a simple couple of preferences and one basic capability could sidestep it:

 - write out console with each run of openscad
 - when writing out console filter to only lines output by echo
 - use custom file extension ____ instead of .nc 

(though it would be nice if that last could be specified in the language/file as a command)

William







-----Original Message-----
From: Ray West <[hidden email]>
To: William F. Adams via Discuss <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2020 6:47 am
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] !![SPAM]!! Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

Hi,
Use scad for showing the picture, but imnsho, you would be better off generating the gcode separately. I've attached a screen shot of a simple box generator - no cad used whatsoever. The joints are not finger joints, but are a sort of stepped butt joint, modern glues are stronger than the wood.
I'm not sure if you need the ballnosed bit, or the tapered bit. Tool changing is a pain, unless you have some high end machine, or possibly designing a machine specifically for making finger joints. I've used  cutters similar to this, quite successfully for wood carving, which sort of combines a taper and a ballend.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/SpeTool-Tapered-2-Flute-0-25mm-Coated/dp/B077883PDW/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=tapered+milling+cutter&qid=1597401368&sr=8-13
I'm guessing you have a sort of flatbed cnc routing table, and you do not really want to have to change tool bits, or manipulate the sheet which you are machining, and all pieces will be the same thickness for an individual box. I hope the juice will be worth the squeeze. It will be fun getting the fingers correct at the corners. Maybe start by restricting the dimensions to a multiple of the finger size  plus.
Best wishes,

Ray
On 14/08/2020 02:56, William F. Adams via Discuss wrote:
Ray West wrote:

>I've not followed this whole thread,

Apparently.

>but if you want to cnc finger joints, I would not start with scad.

It's the CAD tool which I prefer to use --- and I've modeled fingerjoints in it before:


>What cutting tool will you be using, and what is the material?

I am planning on using a 1/4" square endmill, a 1/16" ball-nosed tapered endmill, and a 1/4" radiusing endmill.

>What tolerances are you looking for?

Tight enough for a void free joint.

>Unless you intend standing the pieces on edge, you will not get square corners profiling them with a router bit,

I created a fixture for doing that:


and I've cut boxes thus:


It's a tedious pain.

>although if in wood, with a small diameter bit, woodfiller can solve that.

The refuge of the incompetent woodworker --- I'm trying to design a joinery system where joints have no visible voids --- hence the radius endmill which I intend to use to relieve the fingers to match the radius left by the 1/4" endmill. See the images at:


and


and


William


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

JordanBrown
I know that the reason that I've been a bit ... questioning ... is that from my perspective it is the coordinates and geometry that are the hard part, and that post-processing with
... | sed -n 's/^ECHO: "\(.*\)"$/\1/p'
or something a lot like it just doesn't seem like a big deal.  (Yes, I understand that you're trying to be able to hand the process off to somebody else, and that makes it trickier.  And yes, that's harder on Windows.)

If you're willing to work form the command line, it seems like the only feature you need is "emit only echo output, and don't decorate the echo output", perhaps as a -o variant.  (But -o requires fixed file extensions, since it determines the file format from the extension.)



_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

mondo
In reply to this post by OpenSCAD mailing list-2

I'm not sure exactly what question you are asking. Is it that you, for some reason or other, you want openscad to be able to produce a text file, possibly a list of coordinates, that you will manipulate somehow to produce tool paths, or is it that you are trying to design a joinery system? If you are trying to design a joinery system, then openscad is not much use, other than perhaps as a check to see if the object looks OK. For the sort of tooling/machinery you are most likely wanting to use, even if openscad could write a text file, it would probably be more awkward adjusting that file, than starting from scratch, and writing raw gcode. As you say you have done similar before, you know how straightforward that is, then there is little point in trying to push openscad in a direction that apparently few are interested in.

Although openscad can produce the model, then you are stuck in getting another view of it. If you create the model by some other method, most likely you can more easily get more views of it (MVC paradigm). In other words, generate a list of coordinates, then you can display them on a screen (openscad/whatever) and generate offsets for Gcodes for machining in whatever way you wish.

Have you actually made a sketch of how a couple of the fingers, say, actually mesh together, when prepared by what ever router bits you can use?

Best wishes,

Ray

If this stuff was easy, everybody would be doing it...

On 14/08/2020 15:41, William F. Adams via Discuss wrote:
I've done boxes like that already:


and as noted, I've already managed to get the corners right for a fingerjoint box, which was the beginning of this conversation which apparently no one deemed worthy of actually looking at.


I want to do my CAD and CAM in OpenSCAD --- all I need to make it available to in an elegant (in terms of scientifically correct) and robust fashion which naïve users can make use of it is a way to get some numbers which I am using to call modules in OpenSCAD already into a text file without any extraneous stuff which has to be filtered out.

Yes, I could use some 3rd party tool --- then I get to tell folks:

 - install OpenSCAD and use it to set up your design
 - install a second tool, and run this other file as well, and tell it where you put your OpenSCAD file and what name you saved your Customizer preset under

It's an unnecessary complication --- if only OpenSCAD would be allowed to have a bit more control over writing out text files --- which would be useful for other purposes as well such as B.O.M.s

Yes, I've done something along those lines as documented in my article in:


but it's a lot of extra baggage when a simple couple of preferences and one basic capability could sidestep it:

 - write out console with each run of openscad
 - when writing out console filter to only lines output by echo
 - use custom file extension ____ instead of .nc 

(though it would be nice if that last could be specified in the language/file as a command)

William







-----Original Message-----
From: Ray West [hidden email]
To: William F. Adams via Discuss [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2020 6:47 am
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] !![SPAM]!! Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

Hi,
Use scad for showing the picture, but imnsho, you would be better off generating the gcode separately. I've attached a screen shot of a simple box generator - no cad used whatsoever. The joints are not finger joints, but are a sort of stepped butt joint, modern glues are stronger than the wood.
I'm not sure if you need the ballnosed bit, or the tapered bit. Tool changing is a pain, unless you have some high end machine, or possibly designing a machine specifically for making finger joints. I've used  cutters similar to this, quite successfully for wood carving, which sort of combines a taper and a ballend.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/SpeTool-Tapered-2-Flute-0-25mm-Coated/dp/B077883PDW/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=tapered+milling+cutter&qid=1597401368&sr=8-13
I'm guessing you have a sort of flatbed cnc routing table, and you do not really want to have to change tool bits, or manipulate the sheet which you are machining, and all pieces will be the same thickness for an individual box. I hope the juice will be worth the squeeze. It will be fun getting the fingers correct at the corners. Maybe start by restricting the dimensions to a multiple of the finger size  plus.
Best wishes,

Ray
On 14/08/2020 02:56, William F. Adams via Discuss wrote:
Ray West wrote:

>I've not followed this whole thread,

Apparently.

>but if you want to cnc finger joints, I would not start with scad.

It's the CAD tool which I prefer to use --- and I've modeled fingerjoints in it before:


>What cutting tool will you be using, and what is the material?

I am planning on using a 1/4" square endmill, a 1/16" ball-nosed tapered endmill, and a 1/4" radiusing endmill.

>What tolerances are you looking for?

Tight enough for a void free joint.

>Unless you intend standing the pieces on edge, you will not get square corners profiling them with a router bit,

I created a fixture for doing that:


and I've cut boxes thus:


It's a tedious pain.

>although if in wood, with a small diameter bit, woodfiller can solve that.

The refuge of the incompetent woodworker --- I'm trying to design a joinery system where joints have no visible voids --- hence the radius endmill which I intend to use to relieve the fingers to match the radius left by the 1/4" endmill. See the images at:


and


and


William


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

nophead
In reply to this post by JordanBrown
-o file.echo only captures the echos. Then all you need to do is remove the ECHO: " " around it. An option to remove those would be handy.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 17:20, Jordan Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
I know that the reason that I've been a bit ... questioning ... is that from my perspective it is the coordinates and geometry that are the hard part, and that post-processing with
... | sed -n 's/^ECHO: "\(.*\)"$/\1/p'
or something a lot like it just doesn't seem like a big deal.  (Yes, I understand that you're trying to be able to hand the process off to somebody else, and that makes it trickier.  And yes, that's harder on Windows.)

If you're willing to work form the command line, it seems like the only feature you need is "emit only echo output, and don't decorate the echo output", perhaps as a -o variant.  (But -o requires fixed file extensions, since it determines the file format from the extension.)


_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Is there an OpenSCAD dev who wants a CNC machine? (was Re: Managed to model a finger joint box with relieved fingers --- now how to actually cut it? Allow OpenSCAD to write out files?)

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
In reply to this post by JordanBrown
Jordan Brown wrote:


>I know that the reason that I've been a bit ... questioning ... is that from my perspective it is the >coordinates and geometry that are the hard part, and that post-processing ... 
>or something a lot like it just doesn't seem like a big deal.  (Yes, I understand that you're trying to be >able to hand the process off to somebody else, and that makes it trickier.  And yes, that's harder on >Windows.)

which is exactly why I'm trying to make this as straight-forward as possible.

Ray West wrote:

>I'm not sure exactly what question you are asking. 

It would help if you'd look at the posts and images I've referenced.

>Is it that you, for some reason or other, you want openscad to be able to produce a text file, 
>possibly a list of coordinates, that you will manipulate somehow to produce tool paths, or is it 
>that you are trying to design a joinery system? 

Having designed a joinery system, I want to write out G-Code so that the parts can be cut out, since I haven't found a CAM program which will cut out the joinery designs I have created:

https://old.reddit.com/r/openscad/comments/i2do7a/managed_to_model_a_finger_joint_box_with_relieved/

>If you are trying to design a joinery system, then openscad is not much use, 
>other than perhaps as a check to see if the object looks OK. 

I beg to differ. I find it very useful for the design --- please see the image:

https://imgur.com/g9pQxS6

>For the sort of tooling/machinery you are most likely wanting to use, 
>even if openscad could write a text file, it would probably be more awkward 
>adjusting that file, than starting from scratch, and writing raw gcode. 

I've posted pseudo code for getting the G-Code out of the radiuscut module which I wrote.

>As you say you have done similar before, you know how straightforward that is, 
>then there is little point in trying to push openscad in a direction that apparently 
>few are interested in. 

Argumentum ad populum


>Although openscad can produce the model, then you are stuck in getting another view of it. 

In my design work I always design from the manufacturing view, then rotate as needed.

>If you create the model by some other method, most likely you can more easily 
>get more views of it (MVC paradigm). 

Or, I could continue to just rotate in OpenSCAD

>In other words, generate a list of coordinates, then you can display them on a screen 
>(openscad/whatever) and generate offsets for Gcodes for machining in whatever way you wish. 

The way that I wish to generate them is to write them out of OpenSCAD.

>Have you actually made a sketch of how a couple of the fingers, 
>say, actually mesh together, when prepared by what ever router bits you can use? 

Yes, see the links in my previous message.


nop head wrote:

>-o file.echo only captures the echos. Then all you need to do is remove the ECHO: " " around it. 

Thank you for pointing this out --- it's quite helpful to me.

>An option to remove those would be handy.

Agreed, as would exposing this with a menu option or preference.

William




_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
123