Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

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Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet
Hello,

I am a total beginner and I want to do some simple 3D modeling with OpenSCAD
(example: a small box with a lid, or a toy for animal). I am buying a new
notebook, because my old i3 Dell definitively has its best days over, let's
face it.
I am thinking about Asus TUF Gaming FX505GT-BQ018T, would it be a good
choice? To give an overview of the hardware: Intel Core i5 9300H Coffee
Lake, 15.6" IPS  1920 × 1080, RAM 8GB DDR4, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 4GB, SSD
512GB. Or is there something better in the same price cathegory maybe?
 Much appreciate your help, thank you!

A



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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

MichaelAtOz
Administrator
Anet wrote
> Hello,
>
> I am a total beginner and I want to do some simple 3D modeling with
> OpenSCAD
> (example: a small box with a lid, or a toy for animal)

That's fine for 'simple 3D modeling'.
I didn't look it up, I presume nowadays they are all SSD's.
When you progress to complex, you may want 16GB memory.
ATM you want max clock speed ahead of multiple cores.
GPU's not too important.

Other power users may want to comment.



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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet
In reply to this post by Anet
thank you very much for your opinion! I will have a look if I can find 16GB RAM for comparable money...
Also thank you for your comment on the number of cores vs clock speed. From what I read the base clock speed of Asus TUF should be 2.2 GHz with boost frequency up to 4.1 GHz. I think it sounds fine, provided you can really get that boost frequency they state when you need it.

Regards

Anet




---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: MichaelAtOz
Datum: 22. 10. 2020 v 15:45:20
Předmět: Re: [OpenSCAD] Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet wrote
> Hello,
>
> I am a total beginner and I want to do some simple 3D modeling with
> OpenSCAD
> (example: a small box with a lid, or a toy for animal)

That's fine for 'simple 3D modeling'.
I didn't look it up, I presume nowadays they are all SSD's.
When you progress to complex, you may want 16GB memory.
ATM you want max clock speed ahead of multiple cores.
GPU's not too important.

Other power users may want to comment.



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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

JordanBrown
In reply to this post by Anet
I sometimes use my six-year-old near-bottom-of-the-line HP laptop, and mostly it's fine.  I only recently bumped it up to 8G of RAM.

My primary system is an HP desktop from about the same era, with 12G of RAM.  I believe it was $600 at Costco, to give you an idea of the level of system.  It's an "AMD A10-6700 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics 3.70 GHz".

But it depends on your model, and your patience.  I've never paid real attention to how complex my models are, but I'd guess they are sort of "intermediate".  Most of them preview immediately and render in a few seconds; a few might take a couple of minutes to render.  You can look at some examples at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4264614 .  I'm sure that if I tried to render all of the furniture at the same time, it would take a very long time.

Net, if you're not too demanding my bet would be that almost anything that you can buy today would work.


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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

OpenSCAD mailing list-2
You also have lots of ways to play with settings related to the level of detail for rendering that make a huge difference.

$fa=0.5; // default minimum facet angle is now 0.5
$fs=0.5; // default minimum facet size is now 0.5 mm
will render hundreds of times faster than
$fa=0.05; // default minimum facet angle is now 0.05
$fs=0.05; // default minimum facet size is now 0.05 mm


Disk speed and number of cores probably do not make that much of a difference.

Ron


On 2020-10-22 12:50 p.m., Jordan Brown wrote:
I sometimes use my six-year-old near-bottom-of-the-line HP laptop, and mostly it's fine.  I only recently bumped it up to 8G of RAM.

My primary system is an HP desktop from about the same era, with 12G of RAM.  I believe it was $600 at Costco, to give you an idea of the level of system.  It's an "AMD A10-6700 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics 3.70 GHz".

But it depends on your model, and your patience.  I've never paid real attention to how complex my models are, but I'd guess they are sort of "intermediate".  Most of them preview immediately and render in a few seconds; a few might take a couple of minutes to render.  You can look at some examples at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4264614 .  I'm sure that if I tried to render all of the furniture at the same time, it would take a very long time.

Net, if you're not too demanding my bet would be that almost anything that you can buy today would work.


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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Alan Cox-2
In reply to this post by Anet
> I am thinking about Asus TUF Gaming FX505GT-BQ018T, would it be a good
> choice? To give an overview of the hardware: Intel Core i5 9300H Coffee
> Lake, 15.6" IPS  1920 × 1080, RAM 8GB DDR4, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 4GB, SSD
> 512GB. Or is there something better in the same price cathegory maybe?
>  Much appreciate your help, thank you!

For simple stuff openscad is fast, but as things get more complex (or
sometimes it seems just because some model triggers things) it rapidly
grows in memory and CPU usage. Some of my really complex models I've had
to move to other openscad inspired tools to get them to render in a usable
timescale. You'll probably find your old i3 is just fine for most stuff.

It's a 45W part so shouldn't be too bad despite being a laptop. I would
make sure you can upgrade the memory to more as you may need to (depends
on the models - and also what else you do with it).

OpenSCAD basically wants single CPU thread performance (so an i5 or i7
isn't going to make much difference for openscad) and plenty of RAM.
Graphics capability isn't a big deal as the 3D renders it makes are very
very simple compared with a game or something like that. The AMD option
may get you far better performance for the price overall but for single
threaded performance Intel is still holding onto the lead on most
single threaded benchmarks.

(Disclaimer: I used to work for Intel until the end of last year)

Alan

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

doug.moen
In reply to this post by Anet
If OpenSCAD is the only 3D modelling program you are going to use, then single core performance is important, but not multicore. Lots of memory is good. Memory speed has an impact, so dual-ported memory is slightly better than single-ported. (eg, two 8GB  modules instead of a single 16GB module). You don't need a discrete GPU: Intel integrated graphics is fine.

If you get more heavily into 3D modelling, you'll find that OpenSCAD isn't best for all purposes, and you'll want to use different tools for different jobs. In that case, multi-core performance and having a fast GPU become more important.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, at 9:31 AM, Anet wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a total beginner and I want to do some simple 3D modeling with OpenSCAD
> (example: a small box with a lid, or a toy for animal). I am buying a new
> notebook, because my old i3 Dell definitively has its best days over, let's
> face it.
> I am thinking about Asus TUF Gaming FX505GT-BQ018T, would it be a good
> choice? To give an overview of the hardware: Intel Core i5 9300H Coffee
> Lake, 15.6" IPS  1920 × 1080, RAM 8GB DDR4, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 4GB, SSD
> 512GB. Or is there something better in the same price cathegory maybe?
>  Much appreciate your help, thank you!
>
> A
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
>

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

rew
In reply to this post by Anet
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 06:31:11AM -0700, Anet wrote:
> To give an overview of the hardware: Intel Core i5 9300H Coffee
> Lake, 15.6" IPS  1920 × 1080, RAM 8GB DDR4, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 4GB, SSD
> 512GB.

My recommendation is always to increase the amount of ram. If "common
knowledge" says that 8G is about enough these days, then you'll be very
happy with your 16G.

This statement stays true throughout the years. I bought 8M for my
first Linux-capable machine when 4M was common... (This was before
Linux) Xwindows ran Soooo much better on 8M than 4M!

On my recent server purchase I went from the recommended 8G to 32G
with room to spare to upgrade to 64G.

Unless the workload is very special, RAM is so much faster than disk
that you'll almost always benefit from more RAM.

        Roger.

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

rew
In reply to this post by Anet
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 04:09:17PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> Also thank you for your comment on the number of cores vs clock speed. From
> what I read the base clock speed of Asus TUF should be 2.2 GHz with boost
> frequency up to 4.1 GHz. I think it sounds fine, provided you can really get
> that boost frequency they state when you need it.

The boost is able to run for a few seconds, I think. That's not going
to help you when you have a 60 second rendering job.

With the big difference in "normal" and "boost" speed, in this
instance it may also be that this boost speed is achievable for single
thread performance when your other cores are not active.

        Roger.
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f equals m times a. When your f is steady, and your m is going down
your a is going up.  -- Chris Hadfield about flying up the space shuttle.

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet
In reply to this post by rew
Alright, so the RAM always makes a difference. This is probably the biggest limitation of my old Dell with 4 GB RAM.

Thank you!
Anet



On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 06:31:11AM -0700, Anet wrote:
> To give an overview of the hardware: Intel Core i5 9300H Coffee
> Lake, 15.6" IPS 1920 × 1080, RAM 8GB DDR4, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 4GB, SSD
> 512GB.

My recommendation is always to increase the amount of ram. If "common
knowledge" says that 8G is about enough these days, then you'll be very
happy with your 16G.

This statement stays true throughout the years. I bought 8M for my
first Linux-capable machine when 4M was common... (This was before
Linux) Xwindows ran Soooo much better on 8M than 4M!

On my recent server purchase I went from the recommended 8G to 32G
with room to spare to upgrade to 64G.

Unless the workload is very special, RAM is so much faster than disk
that you'll almost always benefit from more RAM.

Roger.

--
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** Delftechpark 11 2628 XJ Delft, The Netherlands. KVK: 27239233 **
f equals m times a. When your f is steady, and your m is going down
your a is going up. -- Chris Hadfield about flying up the space shuttle.

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet
In reply to this post by doug.moen
OK, so dual-ported memory ... I'll add that to my checklist. 
It is a surprise for me to hear that discrete GPU is not needed. Most of me friends told me I will probably need it (they either don't have much experience with CAD though, or they only use Revit).

Regards

Anet


If OpenSCAD is the only 3D modelling program you are going to use, then single core performance is important, but not multicore. Lots of memory is good. Memory speed has an impact, so dual-ported memory is slightly better than single-ported. (eg, two 8GB modules instead of a single 16GB module). You don't need a discrete GPU: Intel integrated graphics is fine.

If you get more heavily into 3D modelling, you'll find that OpenSCAD isn't best for all purposes, and you'll want to use different tools for different jobs. In that case, multi-core performance and having a fast GPU become more important.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, at 9:31 AM, Anet wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a total beginner and I want to do some simple 3D modeling with OpenSCAD
> (example: a small box with a lid, or a toy for animal). I am buying a new
> notebook, because my old i3 Dell definitively has its best days over, let's
> face it.
> I am thinking about Asus TUF Gaming FX505GT-BQ018T, would it be a good
> choice? To give an overview of the hardware: Intel Core i5 9300H Coffee
> Lake, 15.6" IPS 1920 × 1080, RAM 8GB DDR4, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 4GB, SSD
> 512GB. Or is there something better in the same price cathegory maybe?
> Much appreciate your help, thank you!
>
> A
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenSCAD mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
>

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Alan Cox-2
In reply to this post by rew
On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 19:32:04 +0200
Rogier Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 04:09:17PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Also thank you for your comment on the number of cores vs clock speed. From
> > what I read the base clock speed of Asus TUF should be 2.2 GHz with boost
> > frequency up to 4.1 GHz. I think it sounds fine, provided you can really get
> > that boost frequency they state when you need it.  
>
> The boost is able to run for a few seconds, I think. That's not going

The boost (and degree of boost) depends upon power consumption and
temperature not time. For a 15W part then a few seconds would be typical
but not so much for a 45W part.

> to help you when you have a 60 second rendering job.

It's a laptop, so the 45W part is pretty much the best you can do and
you'll get plenty of benefits from the turbo because you are mostly
running single core and that laptop has external graphics.

If you want to get a higher sustained clock on multiple cores you'll need
to go to a desktop/server part which means either a non-laptop system or
a really expensive, big and heavy one with short battery life.

Everything comes down to power input and heat dissipation. The less bits
of the CPU running the more of the power budget is available to run the
things it is doing faster. Anything on the CPU shares the power budget so
on chip graphics also has an effect. Discrete graphics on the other hand
is a separate component with its own power and cooling so only eats into
the total power/cooling for the system.

Physics generally says that if you can split your sustained workload
efficiently then doing it more parallel and slowly is (to a point) more
efficient, but there is a point at which the fixed power overheads wipe
it out. Thus running 4 cores at 2.2GHz with a threaded app at base
frequency is way more efficient than trying to burst one core.

15W TDP parts are usually considered the right option for things like
business use where the machine is mostly idle but short bursts of fast
performance make it responsive, 35-45W parts are better for gaming and
other more sustained loads. Generally speaking though any vaguely modern
sustained loads like games are architected for four threads of execution.

Alan

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

JordanBrown
In reply to this post by Anet
On 10/25/2020 1:13 AM, Aneta Brunová wrote:
Alright, so the RAM always makes a difference. This is probably the biggest limitation of my old Dell with 4 GB RAM.

Have you tried running OpenSCAD on your old system?  My guess is that it will be OK for small to medium models.

Of course, if you're just itching to buy a new one anyway...

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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

alexgibson

Curve ball: If you generally have reliable internet connection, worth investigating the cost of leasing some cloud computing resource – the ability to infrequently use ‘burst’ computing where you run the render on someone else’s monster spec server, might be cheaper and/or better than paying top dollar for a notebook only to have a less frustrating OpenSCAD experience… just an idea.

 

Alex Gibson

 

admg consulting

 

edumaker limited

 

·         Project management

·         Operations & Process improvement

·         3D Printing

 

From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jordan Brown
Sent: 25 October 2020 19:43
To: OpenSCAD general discussion; Aneta Brunová
Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

 

On 10/25/2020 1:13 AM, Aneta Brunová wrote:

Alright, so the RAM always makes a difference. This is probably the biggest limitation of my old Dell with 4 GB RAM.


Have you tried running OpenSCAD on your old system?  My guess is that it will be OK for small to medium models.

Of course, if you're just itching to buy a new one anyway...

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 


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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

MichaelAtOz
Administrator
In reply to this post by Anet
Anet wrote
> OK, so dual-ported memory ... I'll add that to my checklist. 

I'd put that as nice have, if it costs more, I'd compare that to faster SSD
or better (NVMe).

> It is a surprise for me to hear that discrete GPU is not needed. Most of
> me
> friends told me I will probably need it (they either don't have much
> experience with CAD though, or they only use Revit).

Compare OpenSCAD screen rendering, to almost realistic fast-paced game
rendering at 60+fps.



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Re: Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet
In reply to this post by Anet
Ok, I see. Tkanks

Anet

---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: MichaelAtOz
Datum: 25. 10. 2020 v 23:01:34
Předmět: Re: [OpenSCAD] Choosing new notebook to work with OpenSCAD

Anet wrote
> OK, so dual-ported memory ... I'll add that to my checklist. 

I'd put that as nice have, if it costs more, I'd compare that to faster SSD
or better (NVMe).

> It is a surprise for me to hear that discrete GPU is not needed. Most of
> me
> friends told me I will probably need it (they either don't have much
> experience with CAD though, or they only use Revit).

Compare OpenSCAD screen rendering, to almost realistic fast-paced game
rendering at 60+fps.



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