Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
37 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

nophead
Why can't you see my script? It was in my email reply to the group.


You can use $vpd with scale() to set the size of the text as I did in my example.

You have to enter the window size in pixels at the start of my screen, copied from the GUI status line. I attempt to relate them to the camera with $vpf but my calculation is not quite right.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 02:35, Caddiy <[hidden email]> wrote:


/but isn't quite right in determining the precise offset needed depending on
the screen width and height in pixels. It does get it the right size and
orientation and roughly in the bottom right. You can see in the picture I
posted it says Hell instead of Hello./


I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far. But are you sure the
values of $vp* are in any way related to the number of pixels on your
computer monitor? It doesn't strike me as a particularly promising approach.

Is there a way to apply $vpd to a single object as can be done with $vpr&t,
as opposed to the whole scene?



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

nophead
This is a more correct version but it always looks like the text is center justified but it isn't. Not sure what I got wrong.

window = [776, 362]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate($vpt)
    rotate($vpr)
        scale($vpd / window.y)
            translate([window.x, -window.y] / 2 * tan($vpf))
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");



On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 05:40, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why can't you see my script? It was in my email reply to the group.


You can use $vpd with scale() to set the size of the text as I did in my example.

You have to enter the window size in pixels at the start of my screen, copied from the GUI status line. I attempt to relate them to the camera with $vpf but my calculation is not quite right.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 02:35, Caddiy <[hidden email]> wrote:


/but isn't quite right in determining the precise offset needed depending on
the screen width and height in pixels. It does get it the right size and
orientation and roughly in the bottom right. You can see in the picture I
posted it says Hell instead of Hello./


I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far. But are you sure the
values of $vp* are in any way related to the number of pixels on your
computer monitor? It doesn't strike me as a particularly promising approach.

Is there a way to apply $vpd to a single object as can be done with $vpr&t,
as opposed to the whole scene?



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
dpa
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

email vs. forum.openscad.org

dpa
In reply to this post by nophead
Am So., 25. Okt. 2020 um 06:41 Uhr schrieb nop head <[hidden email]>:
Why can't you see my script? It was in my email reply to the group.

I don't know if it's the case here, but I'll take Nop's question as an opportunity to point out that I actually noticed that I don't receive all the posts as email! It seems to be random.
So if you really want to be sure that you can read all the posts you have to go to http://forum.openscad.org/!

Strange but is like this

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

nophead
In reply to this post by nophead
OK this is a version that works.

window = [737, 888]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate($vpt)
    rotate($vpr)
        translate([$vpd * window.x / window.y, -$vpd] * tan($vpf / 2))
            scale($vpd / window.y)
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");


On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 06:05, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is a more correct version but it always looks like the text is center justified but it isn't. Not sure what I got wrong.

window = [776, 362]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate($vpt)
    rotate($vpr)
        scale($vpd / window.y)
            translate([window.x, -window.y] / 2 * tan($vpf))
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");



On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 05:40, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why can't you see my script? It was in my email reply to the group.


You can use $vpd with scale() to set the size of the text as I did in my example.

You have to enter the window size in pixels at the start of my screen, copied from the GUI status line. I attempt to relate them to the camera with $vpf but my calculation is not quite right.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 02:35, Caddiy <[hidden email]> wrote:


/but isn't quite right in determining the precise offset needed depending on
the screen width and height in pixels. It does get it the right size and
orientation and roughly in the bottom right. You can see in the picture I
posted it says Hell instead of Hello./


I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far. But are you sure the
values of $vp* are in any way related to the number of pixels on your
computer monitor? It doesn't strike me as a particularly promising approach.

Is there a way to apply $vpd to a single object as can be done with $vpr&t,
as opposed to the whole scene?



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

nophead
Slightly more concise:

window = [737, 888]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate($vpt)
    rotate($vpr)
        translate([window.x / window.y, -1] * $vpd * tan($vpf / 2))
            scale($vpd / window.y)
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");


The window pixel dimensions are needed for two reasons. 1) to get the correct x offset that depends on the aspect ratio and 2) to scale the text if you don't want its size to change when the window is resized. So we need yet another $ variable, $vpw to be the window size in pixels. 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 10:20, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK this is a version that works.

window = [737, 888]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate($vpt)
    rotate($vpr)
        translate([$vpd * window.x / window.y, -$vpd] * tan($vpf / 2))
            scale($vpd / window.y)
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");


On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 06:05, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is a more correct version but it always looks like the text is center justified but it isn't. Not sure what I got wrong.

window = [776, 362]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate($vpt)
    rotate($vpr)
        scale($vpd / window.y)
            translate([window.x, -window.y] / 2 * tan($vpf))
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");



On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 05:40, nop head <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why can't you see my script? It was in my email reply to the group.


You can use $vpd with scale() to set the size of the text as I did in my example.

You have to enter the window size in pixels at the start of my screen, copied from the GUI status line. I attempt to relate them to the camera with $vpf but my calculation is not quite right.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 02:35, Caddiy <[hidden email]> wrote:


/but isn't quite right in determining the precise offset needed depending on
the screen width and height in pixels. It does get it the right size and
orientation and roughly in the bottom right. You can see in the picture I
posted it says Hell instead of Hello./


I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far. But are you sure the
values of $vp* are in any way related to the number of pixels on your
computer monitor? It doesn't strike me as a particularly promising approach.

Is there a way to apply $vpd to a single object as can be done with $vpr&t,
as opposed to the whole scene?



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: email vs. forum.openscad.org

MichaelAtOz
Administrator
In reply to this post by dpa
dpa wrote
> Strange but is like this

It was "I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far."
I believe that is not Access,  but comprehend.

Some internet providers are less friendly to mailing-lists.
You can also get a Digest semi-daily too, which should have all the posts.
See http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/options/discuss_lists.openscad.org



-----
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything,  or if I've done something stupid...

* on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain; to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work. Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.

--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
* on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain;
to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work.
Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: email vs. forum.openscad.org

Caddiy

dpa wrote

It was "I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far."
I believe that is not Access,  but comprehend.


That is correct. Thank you. A lot of the stuff here is over my head.

But it was originally from Nophead, not dpa.



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: email vs. forum.openscad.org

Caddiy
The above reply was to Michael@Oz, but for some reason it shows dpa instead.



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: email vs. forum.openscad.org

nophead
Does the latest code I posted work for you?

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 18:28, Caddiy <[hidden email]> wrote:
The above reply was to Michael@Oz, but for some reason it shows dpa instead.



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

Caddiy
In reply to this post by nophead


Slightly more concise...


Looks interesting. Will try it out.



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: email vs. forum.openscad.org

Caddiy
In reply to this post by nophead

Does the latest code I posted work for you?


Not really. I tried the code "as is" and with my figures copied by hand from
the bottom of the GUI, as the variables do not seem to update themselves
with "preview" or "animation". For §vpf I just entered 22. The "hello" still
moves together with the sphere and does not stay in the corner. Have I
overlooked something?

The code with my figures:

window = [1029, 640]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate(37,39,5)
    rotate(100,0,325)
        translate([1029 / 640, -1] * 293 * tan(22 / 2))
            scale(293 / 640)
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");

The window size of course depends on how much of the screen the editor
occupies - which is variable.




--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: email vs. forum.openscad.org

nophead
You should only fill in window size and leave the rest of the code using $vpt, etc. If you haven't got $vpf use 22.5, not 22.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 19:34, Caddiy <[hidden email]> wrote:

Does the latest code I posted work for you?


Not really. I tried the code "as is" and with my figures copied by hand from
the bottom of the GUI, as the variables do not seem to update themselves
with "preview" or "animation". For §vpf I just entered 22. The "hello" still
moves together with the sphere and does not stay in the corner. Have I
overlooked something?

The code with my figures:

window = [1029, 640]; // Copied from the bottom of the GUI

sphere(20);

translate(37,39,5)
    rotate(100,0,325)
        translate([1029 / 640, -1] * 293 * tan(22 / 2))
            scale(293 / 640)
                linear_extrude(0.001)
                    text("hello", valign = "baseline", halign = "right");

The window size of course depends on how much of the screen the editor
occupies - which is variable.




--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

JordanBrown
In reply to this post by Caddiy
On 10/24/2020 7:34 PM, Caddiy wrote:
I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far. But are you sure the
values of $vp* are in any way related to the number of pixels on your
computer monitor?

They are not, but it all ties together.

$vpt says where the camera is relative to the model.

$vpr says which direction the camera is pointing.

I'm not sure exactly what $vpd represents, but effectively it's a zoom control.  (It's referred to as "distance", but I don't understand exactly how it relates to $vpt.)

Now put a frame between the camera and the model.  That's your window.  What you see on your screen is what the camera can see through that frame.

Another way to look at it is to relate them to how you manually position the window using the mouse.  The left mouse button is tied to $vpr, the right mouse button to $vpt, and the wheel to $vpd.

The variables can be used to let the program look at where you've manually positioned the camera, or let the program set the location of the camera.

Create a simple model.  cube(10) is fine.  Note that at the bottom of the window there's a like that says
Viewport: translate = [ xxx yyy zzz ], rotate = [ xxx, yyy, zzz ], distance = ddd (www x hhh)
Watch how those numbers change when you use the mouse to look around the model.  $vpt is the "translate" numbers, $vpr is the "rotate" numbers, and $vpd is the "distance" number.  The www and hhh are the size of your window; there are no corresponding variables.

Is there a way to apply $vpd to a single object as can be done with $vpr&t,
as opposed to the whole scene?

No.  None of these apply to individual objects.  They all control where the camera is.

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

nophead
$vpd is the distance of the camera from the viewport which is a 2D rectangle that frames the image and it subtends an angle at the camera vertically equal to $vpf, the field of view.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 at 20:01, Jordan Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 10/24/2020 7:34 PM, Caddiy wrote:
I cannot assess your script, I haven't got that far. But are you sure the
values of $vp* are in any way related to the number of pixels on your
computer monitor?

They are not, but it all ties together.

$vpt says where the camera is relative to the model.

$vpr says which direction the camera is pointing.

I'm not sure exactly what $vpd represents, but effectively it's a zoom control.  (It's referred to as "distance", but I don't understand exactly how it relates to $vpt.)

Now put a frame between the camera and the model.  That's your window.  What you see on your screen is what the camera can see through that frame.

Another way to look at it is to relate them to how you manually position the window using the mouse.  The left mouse button is tied to $vpr, the right mouse button to $vpt, and the wheel to $vpd.

The variables can be used to let the program look at where you've manually positioned the camera, or let the program set the location of the camera.

Create a simple model.  cube(10) is fine.  Note that at the bottom of the window there's a like that says
Viewport: translate = [ xxx yyy zzz ], rotate = [ xxx, yyy, zzz ], distance = ddd (www x hhh)
Watch how those numbers change when you use the mouse to look around the model.  $vpt is the "translate" numbers, $vpr is the "rotate" numbers, and $vpd is the "distance" number.  The www and hhh are the size of your window; there are no corresponding variables.

Is there a way to apply $vpd to a single object as can be done with $vpr&t,
as opposed to the whole scene?

No.  None of these apply to individual objects.  They all control where the camera is.
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

Caddiy
Ah, now it works! Thanks.

Window y remains constant and window x can be set to the full width or minus
the preferred editor width. Unfortunately there is no $vpw[0].

I have added translate([-10,10,0]) to get the text out of the extreme corner
and text size=10 (which seems to be the default value) so that I just have
to change the number for bigger or smaller characters.

My code, for what it's worth:

//Code for fixed text

//Object magnification
x=01.00;



rotate([$t*360,$t*360,$t*360])
{
color("magenta")
cube(20);
color("lime")
sphere(2);
}




$vpd = 400/x; // Affects everything

translate([$vpt[0],$vpt[1],$vpt[2]]) // Affects text only

rotate([$vpr[0],$vpr[1],$vpr[2]]) // Affects text only


translate([-120/x,-70/x,0]) // = bottom left

color("black")

linear_extrude (height= 0.01)

text("Cube in a fix", font = "Times New Roman", size=8/x);


It would work nicely if distance (with $vpd) could be applied to the text
alone, as translate and rotate can, without affecting anything else.



--
Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

MichaelAtOz
Administrator

Note that indentation of the code helps understand

which lines affect the next line.

Sequences of code affect the following lines until a ";" terminates that sequence.

 

e.g. (as an image so email doesn't affect it)

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Caddiy

> Sent: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 12:03

> To: [hidden email]

> Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

>

> Ah, now it works! Thanks.

>

> Window y remains constant and window x can be set to the full width or minus

> the preferred editor width. Unfortunately there is no $vpw[0].

>

> I have added translate([-10,10,0]) to get the text out of the extreme corner

> and text size=10 (which seems to be the default value) so that I just have

> to change the number for bigger or smaller characters.

>

> My code, for what it's worth:

>

> //Code for fixed text

>

> //Object magnification

> x=01.00;

>

>

>

> rotate([$t*360,$t*360,$t*360])

> {

> color("magenta")

> cube(20);

> color("lime")

> sphere(2);

> }

>

>

>

>

> $vpd = 400/x; // Affects everything

>

> translate([$vpt[0],$vpt[1],$vpt[2]]) // Affects text only

>

> rotate([$vpr[0],$vpr[1],$vpr[2]]) // Affects text only

>

>

> translate([-120/x,-70/x,0]) // = bottom left

>

> color("black")

>

> linear_extrude (height= 0.01)

>

> text("Cube in a fix", font = "Times New Roman", size=8/x);

>

>

> It would work nicely if distance (with $vpd) could be applied to the text

> alone, as translate and rotate can, without affecting anything else.

>

>

>

> --

> Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

>

> _______________________________________________

> OpenSCAD mailing list

> [hidden email]

> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org


Virus-free. www.avg.com

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
OpenSCAD Admin - email* me if you need anything, or if I've done something stupid...
* on the Forum, click on my MichaelAtOz label, there is a link to email me.

Unless specifically shown otherwise above, my contribution is in the Public Domain;
to the extent possible under law, I have waived all copyright and related or neighbouring rights to this work.
Obviously inclusion of works of previous authors is not included in the above.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

nophead
Assigning to $vpd, $vpt and $vpr affect the camera, so that changes the appearance of everything. Reading the values to know where the camera is allows you to position individual objects in a fixed place relative to the camera.

There is no need to split up the vectors and join them back together again. [$vpt[0],$vpt[1],$vpt[2]] is just $vpt and can be passed to translate.

You assigned to $vpd to specify the zoom, whereas I read $vpd to change the size of position of the text, so it doesn't change. It then doesn't matter if $vpd is changed with GUI or is assigned to.

Not sure why you didn't just use the method I posted.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 01:13, MichaelAtOz <[hidden email]> wrote:

Note that indentation of the code helps understand

which lines affect the next line.

Sequences of code affect the following lines until a ";" terminates that sequence.

 

e.g. (as an image so email doesn't affect it)

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Caddiy

> Sent: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 12:03

> To: [hidden email]

> Subject: Re: [OpenSCAD] Another missing feature? (All I want for Xmas...)

>

> Ah, now it works! Thanks.

>

> Window y remains constant and window x can be set to the full width or minus

> the preferred editor width. Unfortunately there is no $vpw[0].

>

> I have added translate([-10,10,0]) to get the text out of the extreme corner

> and text size=10 (which seems to be the default value) so that I just have

> to change the number for bigger or smaller characters.

>

> My code, for what it's worth:

>

> //Code for fixed text

>

> //Object magnification

> x=01.00;

>

>

>

> rotate([$t*360,$t*360,$t*360])

> {

> color("magenta")

> cube(20);

> color("lime")

> sphere(2);

> }

>

>

>

>

> $vpd = 400/x; // Affects everything

>

> translate([$vpt[0],$vpt[1],$vpt[2]]) // Affects text only

>

> rotate([$vpr[0],$vpr[1],$vpr[2]]) // Affects text only

>

>

> translate([-120/x,-70/x,0]) // = bottom left

>

> color("black")

>

> linear_extrude (height= 0.01)

>

> text("Cube in a fix", font = "Times New Roman", size=8/x);

>

>

> It would work nicely if distance (with $vpd) could be applied to the text

> alone, as translate and rotate can, without affecting anything else.

>

>

>

> --

> Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/

>

> _______________________________________________

> OpenSCAD mailing list

> [hidden email]

> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org


Virus-free. www.avg.com
_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org

_______________________________________________
OpenSCAD mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org
12